Charles "Augustus" Smith circa 1842

[mcsking]

According to Census records born either in Liverpool or Sweden in 1842.
Sometimes used middle name Augustus.

Documented History starts in Mar 1865 when my 2 great grandfather is born.
Charles Smith listed as father.

Charles marries Emily Morgan Mason in 1866 - on the wedding records he claims to be a Master Mariner, a widower and the son of Charles Smith.
Mr and Mrs Mason witness.

In 1871 Emily is living with son and parents - marital status unreported..

1n 1881 Charles marries again in London - widower again

Emily is still alive in Liverpool - claiming to be widow - working for Dr. John Elliott
Emily has another child Archibald Smith - probably with John Elliott who was later adopted
She goes into a Liverpool workhouse in 1890 - "widow of Charles Smith - Master Mariner"
John Elliott dies in Lunatic Asylum in 1891
Emily dies in workhouse 1893.

Charles dies in London 1912.

Is there anywhere i can look up Master Mariner records online period 1864 - 1880 using just Charles and Smith. If he was from Sweden (or even Prussia) would he have had to register in some form in the UK ?
What would the registration documents have been ?

Based on the dates I can assume he was in Liverpool in June 1864 and August 1866 .
I searched for this in every way I can think of but while i can find many Charles Smiths around that time i can find no way to link them to this one.
I did find another tree that claimed he was born in Sweden but there was no documentary proof of this beyond a census entry.

Thank you for any suggestions or pointers.

[christanel]

Hi
This site gives a comprehensive run down on Master Mariner's records and where to look. It does say " Many mariners declare themselves as masters on census forms and other official records such as marriage or birth certificates without officially holding qualifications."
I did try searching on The National Archives site but didn't find anything relevant
Christina

[almach]

Charles marries Emily Morgan Mason in 1866 - on the wedding records he claims to be a Master Mariner, a widower and the son of Charles Smith.

Charles Smith Snr.
Have you considered the marriage at Liverpool St John Sept 13th 1842, between Charles Smith mariner, father John Smith mariner, and Mary Ann Fee, father Patrick Fee mariner. Both living Dennison St. Witnesses Thomas Sykes and Alice Smith.

Also, 1841 census in Liverpool a Charles Smith mariner age 33, born foreign parts.

ETA: There seems to be a few records for Charles Smith a mariner in Liverpool. Apologies if I've misled with the above records.

I did see a Liverpool census (1851) record for a Charles Smith age 43, mariner, born Heligoland.

Perhaps you've already seen all the census returns, marriage records and Liverpool Crew Lists for a Charles (A) Smith, and discounted some?

[mcsking]

Thanks for the replies . The problem i'm having is connecting this Charles Smith with the many that are out there. The reason for asking on the Master Mariner thing is I was trying to link him to either ships or other records at the time that might help me narrow it down a bit so i can get some idea of what i might be asking for if I visit the UK.

While it could all be true i'm not sure I trust any of the data provided by him for his wedding to Emily - it all seems a bit shotgun. On later Census he switched between Sweden and Liverpool as place of birth. I've been able to find many Charles Smiths docking in Liverpool as Able Seaman - none as Master Mariner.

I've looked at the sites suggested but cant see any way to do an electronic search of Mariner indexes. Is a visit the only way ?

[helachau]

FindMyPast has 2 Merchant Seaman records (transcription only) for a Charles Smith, born Sweden, years of birth 1841 and 1842. Both records have a Liverpool link.

Pl ignore if these are already covered under your " … many Charles Smiths docking in Liverpool as Able Seamen …"

[almach]

Hi, wondering if you have looked at this site?

chrome-extension://oemmndcbldboiebfnladdacbdfmadadm/https://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/maritime/archive/info-sheet.aspx?sheetId=47

https://www.crewlist.org.uk/

[mcsking]

Hi, wondering if you have looked at this site?

chrome-extension://oemmndcbldboiebfnladdacbdfmadadm/https://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/maritime/archive/info-sheet.aspx?sheetId=47

https://www.crewlist.org.uk/

Thank you - I didn't find him but those are useful resources.
For others wanting to use the Liverpool link this is the corrected version.

https://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/m...spx?sheetId=47

[mcsking]

Thanks - I had seen those - but can't find a common index element to connect them to my guy.

[mcsking]

Hi. As i often read threads and wonder what happened I thought i'd update this.
I got to a reasonable level of confidence that I had the right Charles Smith. Records show he sailed on a ship with his son Edward, and his wedding witness for his third marriage making a nice little cluster and they were neigbours and house sharing for a while. It was all looking quite cosy and i was trying to find ways to work backwards.
However I recently managed to track down a relative from Charles 3rd Marriage in Australia. They kindly agreed to do a DNA test . Their test indicated strong links into Scandanavia and Sweden specifically. Based on that testing there is no match to my father or his two cousins so it seems highly likely that we arent Swedish Smiths biologically. Its theoretically possible the break happened with Edward but that would require 2 NPE's . So i'm not quite back to square one because i've excluded a potential father but am now trying to find the best ways to compare and cluster DNA data for matches.

[christanel]

Thanks for coming back and updating us on your latest findings. Sometime in the future it will help someone researching the same line.
I get completely lost when DNA is discussed even though I have done mine. If I do have a breakthrough it will be because the other party is far more adept at working it out than me.
Good luck with your search
Christina