John Willie Hepworth

[Bigdcanada]

I am unable to trace the records of my relative.
I have a bible with this info in it.
Pte John Willie Hepworth 4329
Signal Section
35th ?. F.
Nov 1 1916
Herne-Bay Kent.
Can anyone help me with this.
Thank you.

[christanel]

Welcome to the British-Genealogy forums
If you came to us from Forces War records reading this will explain how you got here

First of all 60% plus of WW1 service records were destroyed by bombing/fire in WW11. What do survive are the medal roll index cards and the Medal ans Award Rolls however these very, very rarely give any personal information.
Using the service number you have given I can't any records for a Hepworth with the service number 4329. There are others with that number but not anyone with the surname Hepworth. In WW1 if a soldier was moved to another regiment he could be given another number which is why there are others with this number. Each regiment gave the recruits a number particular to that regiment. This later changed and the soldier kept the same number no matter where he moved within the service.
When and where was your John Willie Hepworth born? His parent's names? Was he married when he joined up? Anything to try and identify him as I see from the censuses and FreeBMD he isn't the only one with those names.
Christina

[Pam Downes]

It sounds like a silly question, but are the numbers written very clearly, or have you said what you think they are? (If you know what I mean. ) e.g. could it be 4829. or 7329?

Pam

[Bigdcanada]

Yes it is very clear.

[Bigdcanada]

John Willie was born on 22 Mar 1892 at Flush Heckmondwike, Yorkshire.
Wife was Ethel nee Gall.
Father was Edward Hepworth, mother was Sarah Ann nee Walker.
The only date I have is the one in his bible.
Appreciate the help.
Derek

[christanel]

Thanks for that information Derek.
So to save others looking for backup information he married Ethel in 1911 and they are together on the 1939 register.
I still can't see anything for any army service. Still looking.
Christina

[marshland]

The number is a very short service number for someone joining up or conscripted in 1916 as by the end of 1914 all of the regular and service battalions were all up to much longer service numbers.so he was either in the Army before the start of WW1 or perhaps a Territorial soldier



If he was a Territorial then the Prince of Wales West Yorkshire and the Yorkshire Light Infantry were both territorial Units but they were dissolved by Nov 1916 which leaves the York and Lancaster Regiment as the only one still operating in Nov 1916 at the time of the inscription.

I also wondered if the 35 was actually 3/5 battalion which were common in WW1 and the Yorkshire and Lancashire Regiment does have a 3/5th Battalion which was operational in Nov 1916.

The 3/5th would explain the lack of medal records as they served for the duration of the war in the UK and so would not be entitled to any medals and thus virtually invisible nowadays.

A last thought - I did wonder if 35 F is short for the 35th Field Hospital but I don't think that they would have a signal section. Perhaps someone with more knowledge may help on this.

sadly I can't add anything definitive although I think that the Yorks and Lancs may be a profitable area of research.

[Pam Downes]

The number is a very short service number for someone joining up or conscripted in 1916 as by the end of 1914 all of the regular and service battalions were all up to much longer service numbers.so he was either in the Army before the start of WW1 or perhaps a Territorial soldier



If he was a Territorial then the Prince of Wales West Yorkshire and the Yorkshire Light Infantry were both territorial Units but they were dissolved by Nov 1916 which leaves the York and Lancaster Regiment as the only one still operating in Nov 1916 at the time of the inscription.

I also wondered if the 35 was actually 3/5 battalion which were common in WW1 and the Yorkshire and Lancashire Regiment does have a 3/5th Battalion which was operational in Nov 1916.

The 3/5th would explain the lack of medal records as they served for the duration of the war in the UK and so would not be entitled to any medals and thus virtually invisible nowadays.

A last thought - I did wonder if 35 F is short for the 35th Field Hospital but I don't think that they would have a signal section. Perhaps someone with more knowledge may help on this.

sadly I can't add anything definitive although I think that the Yorks and Lancs may be a profitable area of research.

Now don't knock your contribution. I think the first paragraph is extremely definitive and helpful.

Makes me wonder if John was a professional soldier who served after 1921/1922, because if so his records will still be with the Ministry of Defence.
John and Ethel would appear to have had three children -
Albert E birth registered 1912 who died aged 1,
Clifford birth registered March quarter 1916
Irene, birth registered December quarter 1923
All Dewsbury registration district.

Derek - depending on how much money you want to spend on this search you could send for the birth certificates of either Irene or Clifford. Irene's will cost £11.00 and may say that her father is a soldier. Equally, even if he'd been serving in 1922 he could have left the army by the time she was born.
Clifford's birth certificate you can order as a PDF download. It's plain black and white as opposed to being a fancy pink/red one but has the same information and will only cost £7.00. That might give more details about John's occupation other than just 'soldier', i.e. might give his regiment.
Neither choice is a cast-iron guarantee of further (helpful) information being available, just a possibility.
To order BMD certificates for England and Wales always use https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/c...es/default.asp

Incidentally, anyone looking in the 1939 Register on FMP for John and Ethel currently needs to search for Hopworth. I have sent in a correction.

Pam

[christanel]

Incidentally, anyone looking in the 1939 Register on FMP for John and Ethel currently needs to search for Hopworth. I have sent in a correction.

On ancestry it is correctly transcribed as Hepworth.
Christina