Help...what is going on

[saddlers]

Has anyone ever seen anything like this before, or would like to put an explanation to it....or tell me I am completely wrong.

My x2 Great Grandmother was an Ann Maria Roe born in November 1869 (taken from 1939 Register), however I have never been able to locate a birth record. Her father is down on her marriage cert as James Rowe a coal miner from Walsall.

Anyway I started looking for Rowe family in Walsall due to the fact I was struggling and located a family on the 1891 Census - Living at 27 Bell Lane, Walsall

James Roe - Head
Maria Roe - Wife
Alex - 20
Ellen - 19
Thomas -16
William - 13
Ruth and John (Twins) - 11
Samuel - 8
Martha - 6

If I go forward 10 years to the 1901 Census, living at 25 Bell Lane, Walsall are

James Thompson - Head
Maria Thompson - Wife
William - 26
Samuel - 18
Ruth - 21
Martha - 16

This seemed to be too much of a coincidence, so I went back to the 1881 Census, living at 25 Bell Lane, Walsall are

James Thompson - Head
Maria Thompson - Wife
Jane - 17
James - 16
Rebecca - 14
Maria - 11 (matches my x2 great grandmother)
Alex - 10
Ellen - 7
William - 6
Thomas - 4
Ruth and John (Twins) - 1

Bear with me, the 1871 Census has the family now at 15 Bell Lane, Walsall

James Thompson - Head
Maria Thompson - Wife
Joseph - 11
Mary - 9
Jane - 7
James - 5
Rebecca - 3
Ann Maria - 1 (matches my x2 great grandmother)

Now I moved onto births for this family....and the plot thickens. In age order I located


Jane Roe - 1864 - Mothers maiden name Phipps
James Roe - 1866 - Mothers maiden name Phipps
Rebecca Row - 1867 - Mothers maiden name Phipps
Alex Roe - 1871 - Mothers maiden name Phipps
Ellen Roe - 1873 - Mothers maiden name Phipps
William Roe - 1875 - Mothers maiden name Phipps
Thomas Roe - 1877 - Mothers maiden name Phipps
Ruth Roe - 1880 - Mothers maiden name Phipps
John Roe - 1880 - Mothers maiden name Phipps
Samuel Roe - 1883 - Mothers maiden name Phipps

Joseph Thompson - 1858 - Mothers maiden name is blank
Mary Thompson - 1864 - Mothers maiden name is blank
Ann Maria Thompson - 1869 - Mothers maiden name Fibbs
Martha - Not Yet Located

Finally I find a marriage between James Roe and Maria Phipps in 1857

Why would they keep changing their names or am I wrong? Looking on Ancestry I also found someone else who has James Roe listed and they have his parents as Richard Roe and Mary Thompson..although I have not yet verified this aspect, but it seems to tie together...

[Pam Downes]

If I were you, I'd invest six quid in a PDF birth certificate for one of the twins and hope it's got the full address (not just Walsall) on it.

A Bell Lane address would be enough proof for me that the families are the same.

I'd also want Ann Maria's birth certificate as well. Fibbs is a perfectly reasonable alternative to Phipps if the person saying it had a cold or a broad accent and the person recording it was partially deaf/not used to different/local accents.

Unless you're doing it for fraudulent reasons it's not a crime to call yourself by whatever name you want.

Added: I wonder if you go back with father James if it turns out that he was either illegitimate or else his father died young and his mother married again.

Pam

[katarzyna]

Joseph is on 1861 census as Sampson (Ancestry) age 1 with parents James - Coal Miner and wife Maria. The image is Thompson. Living Willenhall which is Wolverhampton Reg District
ROE, JOSEPH mmn PHIPPS
1859 Dec Qtr WOLVERHAMPTON 06B p443 and p444
ROW, MARY mmn PHIPPS
1862 Mar Qtr WOLVERHAMPTON 06B p464

Edit:
ROE, MARTHA mmn PHIPPS
1885 Mar Qtr WALSALL 06B p717

[almach]

ROE, JOSEPH PHIPPS
GRO Reference: 1859 D Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 443

ROW, MARY, MMN PHIPPS
GRO Reference: 1862 M Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 464

ROE, MARTHA , MMN PHIPPS
GRO Reference: 1885 M Quarter in WALSALL Volume 06B Page 717

1861, Willenhall. RG 9; Piece: 2002; Folio: 4; Page: 4
The original does look like THOMPSON
James Sampson [sic] 26, coal miner, Stafford
Maria Sampson 21, Walsall
Joseph Sampson 1, Short Heath

The 1841 census has Mary Roe, and a Richard Roe age 1yr, there's a birth reg (see below) which has MMN THOMPSON. Also on the census is a James Roe age 12.
1841, Bilston. HO107; Piece: 1001; Book: 10; Folio: 31; Page: 10;
Mary Roe 30
James Roe 12
Richard Roe 1
Joseph Thompson 12
Sarah Fellowes 18

ROE, RICHARD THOMPSON
GRO Reference: 1839 D Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON AND SEISDON Volume 17 Page 296

[almach]

A richard Roe married Mary Thompson 5th May 1833 at St Peter, Wolverhampton

[almach]

Revisiting the 1841 census it is interesting that living new door but one to Mary Roe's household is:
John PHIPPS, 25
Elizabeth PHIPPS, 30
MARY PHIPPS, 2. Possibly James' future wife?

ETA: however if the 1841 census is 'your' James his age isn't consistent with later census returns.

[almach]

1851, Bilston. HO107; Piece: 2021; Folio: 699; Page: 8;
Lodging with Edward Lawley
Joseph Thompson 21, stone miner
Jane Thompson 24
Mary Thompson 4
James Roe 15, stone miner

Looks like Joseph Thompson (1841), now married to Jane, and they have a dau, Mary 4. also with them James Roe age 15 (perhaps his age was recorded wrongly in 1841)

[katarzyna]

Marriage details if you don't have them already.
FreeReg:
07 Sep 1857 Marriage at St Matthew, Walsall
James Roe age 23 Bach -miner living Upper Rushall St. Walsall. Father Richard Roe - Labourer
Maria Phipps age 20 Spin. Living Blue Lane. Father Alexander Phipps - miner.
Witnesses: Alexander Phipps and Hyla Archer.

[almach]

Christening

James Rowe, 25 Dec 1836, Bilston, Stafford, England
Father's Name: Richard Rowe, Mother's Name: Mary

[almach]

It would appear Mary had Joseph before she married as no father named on the christening record.

Joseph Thompson, 14 Jun 1829, St. Leonard's,, Bilston, Stafford, England
Mother's Name: Mary Thompson