Thomas Watkins

**ladysailor** · 14-12-2018, 3:43 PM

Hi

My ancestor is Charles Frederick Watkins born 1845 in Stepney.

His parents were Thomas and Mary Ann Hughes who were married in Queenborough on 5 Feb 1832.

The 1841 census lists Thomas, Mary Ann, and offspring Thomas, William, Eliza and Mary. Obviously not Charles as he wasn't born until 1845.

I would expect to see Charles listed on the 1851 census along with mother, father and the youngest of his siblings, but haven't managed to find them.

In fact, I haven't managed to find any combination of these people in later years, although Thomas crops up later when he is given as the father on his children's marriage certificates.

His occupation is given as Policeman in earlier documents and Baker in later ones.

The first two children were born in Minster, Kent, the last three in Stepney, Middlesex.

The 1841 census gives place of birth as 'out of county' for both parents.

My problem is how to find exactly which Thomas Watkins was Charles Frederick's father. On the 1841 census his estimated birth year is 1812-1816.

I've found a Thomas Watkins who was christened on 24 November 1816 in Chatham in Kent, who might be the father, but I haven't found anything that reassures me that this is the 'right' Thomas Watkins.

I'm wondering if a fresh pair of eyes might see something I've missed, or somewhere I've drawn the wrong conclusion.

Help please!

**almach** · 15-12-2018, 12:14 AM

Hello ladysailor, and welcome to the Brit-Gen forums

I've been looking at your query and not got very far, these people do seem elusive after 1841. To help others who may wish to help, the census reference for 1841 is: HO107; Piece number 712; Book number 15; Folio number 48; Page number 24

On the 1841 census his estimated birth year is 1812-1816.

If I've provided the correct census reference Thomas is entered as age 30, so born 1811. The 1841 census asked people over 15yrs old to round their ages down to the nearest five, so Thomas, according the info he gave would have been born 1807 - 1811.

Did Charles marry Jane Catherine Prior 5th May 1867 at St James the Great, Bethnal Green? If so, do you know who John Watkins, a witness to the marriage is?

**elsinore** · 15-12-2018, 1:14 AM

I've had no success either, almach.

Originally Posted by ladysailor

I've found a Thomas Watkins who was christened on 24 November 1816 in Chatham in Kent, who might be the father, but I haven't found anything that reassures me that this is the 'right' Thomas Watkins.

Except to say that if this man was baptised soon after birth, he would have been only 15 years old on marriage. Not impossible but unlikely. Of course, he might have been born a few years before baptism.

ladysailor, have you been able to view the original marriage entry between Thomas and Mary Ann? It might contain info which has either not been transcribed, or which has been mistranscribed.

Peter

Dundee10 · 15-12-2018, 2:18 AM

Originally Posted by almach

Did Charles marry Jane Catherine Prior 5th May 1867 at St James the Great, Bethnal Green? If so, do you know who John Watkins, a witness to the marriage is?

John married the other witness, Rosetta HOWE, in 1867, father Thomas, a Baker. Later census shows him as John C. born c1850 in Poplar,so he would be John Charles registered Poplar in 1849.

Dundee10 · 15-12-2018, 2:21 AM

It looks like they are at Poplar in 1851 as WILKINS.

Class: HO107; Piece: 1556; Folio: 647; Page: 17

**almach** · 15-12-2018, 3:09 AM

Originally Posted by Dundee10

It looks like they are at Poplar in 1851 as WILKINS.

Class: HO107; Piece: 1556; Folio: 647; Page: 17

Good find, Dundee10. I agree that it seems to be them.

Ladysailor, each household filled out a census return, the enumerator copied it into his book and the details were then transferred to the sheet we see on Ancestry; FMP; The Genealogist etc. (I think that's right), so it leaves room for mistakes to be made, in particular if someone's hand writing was poor.

**ladysailor** · 15-12-2018, 6:43 AM

Originally Posted by almach

Hello ladysailor, and welcome to the Brit-Gen forums

I've been looking at your query and not got very far, these people do seem elusive after 1841. To help others who may wish to help, the census reference for 1841 is: HO107; Piece number 712; Book number 15; Folio number 48; Page number 24

If I've provided the correct census reference Thomas is entered as age 30, so born 1811. The 1841 census asked people over 15yrs old to round their ages down to the nearest five, so Thomas, according the info he gave would have been born 1807 - 1811.

Did Charles marry Jane Catherine Prior 5th May 1867 at St James the Great, Bethnal Green? If so, do you know who John Watkins, a witness to the marriage is?

Hi, thank you. Yes we are both looking at the same census

Oh dear, arithmetic never was a strong point of mine. I'll look again with amended dates. Thanks

Yes Chas married Jane Catherine Prior, I didn't think to follow up on John Watkins.

**ladysailor** · 15-12-2018, 6:50 AM

Originally Posted by elsinore

I've had no success either, almach.

Except to say that if this man was baptised soon after birth, he would have been only 15 years old on marriage. Not impossible but unlikely. Of course, he might have been born a few years before baptism.

ladysailor, have you been able to view the original marriage entry between Thomas and Mary Ann? It might contain info which has either not been transcribed, or which has been mistranscribed.

Peter

Hi Peter

I was working on the assumption that he was not baptized until he was older - but now I know I've made a mess of estimating his birth year I can probably dismiss that particular Thomas and find another.

I did contact the OPC for Queenborough some time ago to ask her to look up the marriage certificate of Thomas and Mary Ann. It did not give their parents or ages. It did say they were both 'from this parish', which is why I searched Kent records.

Ladysailor

**ladysailor** · 15-12-2018, 7:10 AM

Originally Posted by Dundee10

John married the other witness, Rosetta HOWE, in 1867, father Thomas, a Baker. Later census shows him as John C. born c1850 in Poplar,so he would be John Charles registered Poplar in 1849.

Hi. That's exciting. So John Charles would be Charles Frederick's brother? Or half-brother, because I think Mary Ann died in 1849. But then I might have the wrong Mary Ann!