Jurisdictions and Civil Divisions

[History_Hunter]

Pam,

From googling, it would appear that there is specific RootsMagic UK version, though presumably you might have problems entering Canadian addresses into it. There is a demo you can download.

That may be a solution. The actual program is likely the same, but the included templates may differ. Odd that I’ve never seen the UK version mentioned before. Will check this out.

I really appreciate all the help. Hopefully I can get these seemingly minor issues addressed and simply get my data into the program in the near future. I learned a while back that I need to solve these issues first before rushing forward.

[History_Hunter]

All;

The UK edition of RootsMagic appears to be a sufficiently different variant of the US program that tw o entirely different sites exist. It has a wealth of extra databases for land owners and names that the US version doesn’t. The two sites don’t seem to even mention the other. I don’t know that the Uk version is a viable option for me, as it appears to be more a UK only version.

[helachau]

Thank you for the correct spelling..

I wasn't offering the GRO's version of "Bedwelty" as the correct spelling. Rather, I was pointing out that a site such as the GRO used the single "l" format - incorrectly as far as I am concerned.

[Megan Roberts]

I wasn't offering the GRO's version of "Bedwelty" as the correct spelling. Rather, I was pointing out that a site such as the GRO used the single "l" format - incorrectly as far as I am concerned.

I have had my own run ins with the GRO over their obtuseness when it comes to Welsh place names, but I think that the civil service must have been practising for centuries. I have just been looking at convict's application for his wife and child to join him in Australia in 1832, which was not filled in by him. According to that his wife lived in the parish of Thanbeblick and his employer in Thanberris. One can only hope that the Caernarvon magistrate to whom the Australian authorities wrote asking for references regarding the wife was able to realise that they were referring to Llanbeblig and Llanberis...........

[History_Hunter]

I poked around a bit on the National archives site and found the following, which seems to answer my original question quite nicely.

I have a 1901 Census return image called, "RG13_Pc-760_Fo-75_Pg-10.tif".
1) Got to The index of RG records: https://discovery.nationalarchives.go...rowse/r/h/C244
2) Select the RG number that corresponds to the census year (in this case "RG13"): https://discovery.nationalarchives.go...wse/r/h/C87718
3) Select what is most similar to the census record field, "Administrative County" (in this case "Kent extra metropolitan"): https://discovery.nationalarchives.go...wse/r/h/C87718
4) Now look for the RG number followed by the Piece number (in this case ""RG13/760 Brenchley", which just happens to be the "Civil Parish" shown on the census sheet and what the National Archives calls the "Sub-District"): https://discovery.nationalarchives.go...ls/r/C10979051
5) The displayed page lists each "Civil Parish, Township or Place" in the noted Sub-district. In this case we see one option is "Paddock Wood", which matches with the "Town, Village or Hamlet" field on the census page.

So, to sum it all up. To find the census sheet, it appears you need both the RG number, the Piece number, Folio number and Page Number from the filename or census sheet image. Plus, you also seem to need the "Administrative County", "Civil Parish" and "Town or Village or Hamlet" from the census sheet image to actually tie things down precisely. Technically, you only need one or the other of the Piece Number or the "Civil Parish", but it's just easier and "safer" to record both.

This should make it easier to figure out what one actually needs to quote in one's citation of a census record and what the items are called.

[History_Hunter]

Missed a step in my previous post. So here it goes again...

I poked around a bit on the National archives site and found the following, which seems to answer my original question quite nicely.

I have a 1901 Census return image called, "RG13_Pc-760_Fo-75_Pg-10.tif".
1) Go to The index of RG records: https://discovery.nationalarchives.go...rowse/r/h/C244
2) Select the RG number that corresponds to the census year (in this case "RG13"): https://discovery.nationalarchives.go...wse/r/h/C87718
3) Select what is most similar to the census record field, "Administrative County" (in this case "Kent extra metropolitan"): https://discovery.nationalarchives.go...wse/r/h/C87718
4) Select the "Registration District" that corresponds to the "Rural District" on the census (in this case "Tonbridge"): https://discovery.nationalarchives.go...se/r/h/C149714
5) Now look for the RG number followed by the Piece number (in this case "RG13/760 Brenchley", which just happens to be the "Civil Parish" shown on the census sheet and what the National Archives calls the "Sub-District"): https://discovery.nationalarchives.go...ls/r/C10979051
6) The displayed page lists each "Township or Place" in the noted Sub-district. In this case we see one option is "Paddock Wood", which matches with the "Town, Village or Hamlet" field on the census page.

So, to sum it all up. To find the census sheet, it appears you need both the RG number, the Piece number, Folio number and Page Number from the filename or census sheet image. Plus, you also seem to need the "Administrative County", "Rural District", "Civil Parish" and "Town or Village or Hamlet" from the census sheet image to actually tie things down precisely. Technically, you only need one or the other of the Piece Number or the "Civil Parish", but it's just easier and "safer" to record both.

This should make it easier to figure out what one actually needs to quote in one's citation of a census record and what the items are called.

That wasn't easy to explain, so if you see an error, let me know and I'll correct it.

[Peter Goodey]

The citation needs the series number (RG13), the piece number (conventionally shown in the form RG13/760) Together with at least the folio number eg RG13/760 f 75. This defines the sheet. You can include the page number but all that does is to identify which side of the sheet you're interested in. The citation doesn't need the geographical data that you mention.

You get a gold star for using the National Archives catalogue - I wish others would use it more. However please note that "sub-district" is not the same as "civil parish". The Brenchley sub-district covered more than just the parish of Brenchley.

The list of places in the National Archives catalogue entry include, as indicated in the header a mixture of civil parishes, townships and places. There was at the time no civil parish of Paddock Wood although it was an ecclesiastical parish from 1860.

Something that works on Ancestry and is often well worth doing is to wind back the images to the start of the enumeration book (image number 1). This should be a header sheet of the enumeration book setting out the details of the area covered.


The National Archives didn't outsource the censuses as a single job lot but did it individually. The prime franchise holder was Ancestry in many cases. Contracts were exclusive only for a period, after which other companies could get in on the game.

[History_Hunter]

Peter;

The National Archives didn't outsource the censuses as a single job lot but did it individually. The prime franchise holder was Ancestry in many cases. Contracts were exclusive only for a period, after which other companies could get in on the game.

I just finished poking around the sites that are archived on the National Archive website (What a goldmine!!!) and also had a chat with one of their research advisors. The site I originally used in 2003 was the "1901 Census Online". At that time the PRO had just hired a company to put their 1901 Census info from their official "Image Library" online. Also, about that time, responsibility for this was transferred from the PRO to the National Archives. It appears that this site only lasted a short while. I was told that the "Image Library" images that I purchased in 2003 are the same ones now offered by the National Archives current partner, "Findmypast".

Following the Evidence Explained format, it appears that a typical citation for one of my purchase images would look like:

1901 Census of England, Wales & Scotland Census, Kent, Tonbridge, p. 10 (stamped), Frederick William Wells; database with images, The National Archives, 1901 Census Online (www.1901censusonline.com : downloaded 2 April 2003); citing The National Archives, RG13, piece 760, folio 75, page 10, schedule 1.

As you can see, the EE format seems to require the "Administrative County" and "Rural District" to be entered into what RootsMagic 7 calls the "Jurisdiction" and "Civil Division". Now I am a bit uncertain if I should be using Tonbridge or Brenchley. Perhaps you can help?

[Peter Goodey]

Is that the UK edition of Roots Magic?

[History_Hunter]

Peter;

No. Not the UK version. I'm in Canada and was born in France. So, I needed something a bit more "international". This is why I'm struggling with what census items are called in the census templates.