Hi, I’m looking for a little help from someone who speaks Welsh. I’m trying to interpret the 1861 address of my Great Grandfather William Davies. The census record indicates that he lived at Rhylcriw near Llanegryn, Merionethshire at a place that looks to be named as ‘Felyafach’ (I’m not sure the first letter is an ‘F’, it could be a ‘V’). I know that he was born at at 31 Plas Newydd (New Hall), Rhydyrhiw in 1850, so is the ‘Felyafach’ a place or simply a house name?
I’d also appreciate advice on the correct spelling of Rhydyrhiw and is that the Coed-Rhyd-y-rhiw, Gwynedd that I can see on OS maps, plus are there any dwellings there now?
Thanks.
Results 1 to 6 of 6
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19-11-2018, 1:58 PM #1obdaviesGuest
Rhydyrhiw near Llanegryn, Merionethshire
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19-11-2018, 5:23 PM #2
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Just checking the 1861 Census - Reference RG09 4318 41 10
The William Davieses (born 1820 and 1856) don't fit your William Davies born 1850 - yet the address is "Velynfach", both born Llanegryn.
Can you give the 1861 reference of "your" William Davies, born 1850?"dyfal donc a dyr y garreg"
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19-11-2018, 5:43 PM #3obdaviesGuest
Hi 'helachan', thanks for the help.
Yes I appreciate that William is shown as 5 years old in the 1861 census for some reason, however he is with his family aged 4 months in 1851, is 29 years old on his 1879 marriage certificate and aged 49 on his death certificate in 1899. His parents are William Davies, a joiner and Mary Pugh, they married in Liverpool in 1846. You will see his older sister Mary Anne aged 3 on the 1851 census and aged 13 on the 1861 census, the sister is shown as born in Liverpool in both the 1851 and 1861 census, all the other are born in Llanegryn, including both parents. This is the same family
1851 Wales Census about William Davies
Name: William Davies
Age: 4 Mo
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1850
Relation: Son
Father's Name: William
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Male
Where born: Llanegryn, Merionethshire, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Rhydyrhiw
County/Island: Merionethshire
Country: Wales
Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Occupation: View image
Disability: View image
Registration district: Dolgelly
Sub-registration district: Talyllyn
ED, institution, or vessel: 5c
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 31
Household Members: Name Age
William Davies 30 - father b.1821
Mary Davies 29 - wife b.1822
Mary Ann Davies 3 - sister
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19-11-2018, 6:01 PM #4obdaviesGuest
You can also see that the Father, William is recorded as a 'joiner' in both the 1851 and 1861 census, plus both he and his wife age exactly 10 years between the two census.
1851 - Class: HO107; Piece: 2511; Folio: 167; Page: 6; GSU roll: 104282.
1861 - Class: RG9; Piece: 4318; Folio: 41; Page: 10; GSU roll: 543268.
I have no idea why the son William's age is incorrectly recorded. Like you I suspected a death and a new son with the same name but his subsequent marriage record and death record confirm the 1850 birth.
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19-11-2018, 6:54 PM #5
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The address is captured as "Velynfach". "f" in Welsh is hard, pronounced as "v" (there is no "v" in Welsh). Enumerators and others, unfamiliar with Welsh, often entered "v" where "f" was more appropriate.
The root word is "melin" - meaning mill. For various reasons (which I won't go into) this can become "felin" (pronounced velin). So we have "felin fach" or "little mill". Looking at the 1861 Census I see the addresses "Pencraig, Village x 3, Glanymorfa, Llwyn Hensol, Trychia, Trychia Ucha, Rhôs, Velynfach...".
https://maps.nls.uk/view/102185086
If you look at the foot of this map you can see some of the names listed - including "Felin fâch". It's immediately below "Ty-newydd" in smaller print"dyfal donc a dyr y garreg"
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19-11-2018, 7:02 PM #6obdaviesGuest
Thanks, that's been a tremendous help and far more than I'd hoped for, it's not easy tracking in Wales especially when their parents are Davies and Pugh. I'm now certain I have William (1850) in every census except 1871, where I'm guessing he is a 'Farm Servant' but that seems unlikely for a qualified joiner or 'house carpenter' as he sometimes describes himself.
Class: RG10; Piece: 5689; Folio: 44; Page: 7
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