Frank Turner 1888-1972

[MiltonRumata]

Hi guys,

I've hit the brickiest of brickwalls trying to find out about the origins of my great-grandfather Frank Turner. I know he was born in November 1888 but in terms of concrete evidence I've only managed to trace his whereabouts back as far as 1911, when he was living in Woodford, Essex working as a confectioner. He wrote on the 1911 consensus that he was born in New Southgate, Middlesex but I've pored through the birth registration archives but I can't find any trace of him. All the Frank Turners I've come across I can trace from 1911 forwards but I know my great-grandfather had moved to Coventry by 1915 when he got married and signed up to the army.

I'm trying to find out about his origins for my father and aunt, who would deeply love to know more about his background. The scraps of information he told my aunt himself don't quite square up with the evidence I've found. For instance, he never told anybody that he signed up to fight in WW1 but I've found evidence that he did, though he was unfortunately deemed unfit for service 3 months later owing to a heart defect. Perhaps he felt embarrassed (though of course in my mind it was an incredibly brave thing to do). He told my aunty at one stage that he'd lived with his father in Crowborough and worked as some kind of squire until he ran away from home. He said he slept in bushes and his shoes fell apart as he made his way to Coventry. Now, the fact that I've got concrete evidence that he was living with another tenant in Woodford in 1911 makes me doubt this story somewhat Perhaps he lived in Crowborough before moving to Woodford and then between 1911 and 1915 made his way to Coventry. He was clearly a very cryptic man.

So this is my brickwall. How to find a man's past who clearly wanted it left concealed. One possible avenue I can think of is that my grandparents allegedly visited the house in Crowborough and actually said that it looked just like a dollhouse my aunt owns. I have pictures of the dollhouse and will shortly be posting them on some local history forums to see if anyone recognises it. Beyond that does anyone have any other resources or ideas that might help locate my family origins? I've been so thorough in poring through all the Frank Turners that were born between 1885-1890 in Southern England but I've exhausted them all because I can trace them after 1911. I'm beginning to think perhaps he wasn't christened Frank at all, perhaps it was a middle name. In that case I feel my cause is completely lost.

Thank you to anyone who's taken the time to read my tale of plight and thanks in advance for any help/tips/advice you may be able to offer.

[Pam Downes]

Hello, and welcome to British-Genealogy.

When you have a brickwall, the only way to demolish it is to make sure the route back to it is as solid as can be.

So you give the dates for Frank as 1888-1972.
There is one death registration in 1972 which fits those details, and this Frank died in Exeter registration district. His given birthdate of 22 November 1888 matches a Frank Turner, living in Exeter in 1939 with wife Annie, and Frank being a master baker and confectioner.

Is this your Frank? If not, then either the year of death, year of birth, possibly both are wrong. In which case, the next question is - do you have a copy of Frank's death certificate, and if so is it an 'original' (issued at the time of his death) or one you've ordered since beginning your search for his origins?

Pam

[MiltonRumata]

Hi Pam,

Thanks so much for your quick response. That's exactly the right Frank. My grandfather was raised in Exeter and I too was born and raised in Devon. From 1911 onwards I can track his rise from Confectioner in Woodford, Essex to Master Baker in Exeter, Devon but prior to 1911 I've got nothing. He must be somewhere in the 1901 and 1891 surveys but I've gone through every Frank Turner I can find and all of them are traceable either to the 1911 survey or to the ww1 records, which means they can't possibly be my Frank.

[Peter Goodey]

You say he married in 1915. What does the marriage certificate say about his father?

I've found evidence that he did, though he was unfortunately deemed unfit for service 3 months later owing to a heart defect

What is the evidence please? The more you tell us, the more we can help.

[Megan Roberts]

Have you got his marriage certificate and if so what does it say about his father's name and occupation?

[Peter Goodey]

I've found the marriage certificate and it says of his father "Frank Turner, deceased".

Hmmm.

[MiltonRumata]

The evidence for his brief spell in the army are his enlistment and subsequent discharge papers, which are very detailed but sadly do not give any further information regarding his origins. It's interesting that, in regards to his father, he writes in the 1939 census what looks like a III after his name, indicating he's the third Frank Turner in his line. Of course it may not be a III and I'm open to alternative suggestions. I tried to upload an image but the site says it failed for some reason. Thanks everybody for your help so far!

[christanel]

The evidence for his brief spell in the army are his enlistment and subsequent discharge papers, which are very detailed but sadly do not give any further information regarding his origins. It's interesting that, in regards to his father, he writes in the 1939 census what looks like a III after his name, indicating he's the third Frank Turner in his line. Of course it may not be a III and I'm open to alternative suggestions. I tried to upload an image but the site says it failed for some reason. Thanks everybody for your help so far!

It is the number 17 with three diagonal lines drawn through it. If you look 3 entries further down the page there is a number 17 against the name of Agnes levine. Possibly one of the codes used in the register. There is the same thing at the bottom of the page for a Charles Osman with the diagonal lines through it.
Christina

[MiltonRumata]

Ahh, thank you so much Christina. That solves that.

[Pam Downes]

It is the number 17 with three diagonal lines drawn through it. If you look 3 entries further down the page there is a number 17 against the name of Agnes levine. Possibly one of the codes used in the register. There is the same thing at the bottom of the page for a Charles Osman with the diagonal lines through it.
Christina

Don't wish to disagree with you, Christina, but I think you'll find it's either an M or an F (for male and female) which the enumerator entered in error after the names instead of writing it in the next column. He's made the same mistake a couple of times on the next page as well. Crossed the incorrect letter through with three diagonal lines.

Oam