Posting of Genealogical Workflow Questions

[History_Hunter]

My Question: What is the best forum in which to post questions regarding Genealogical Workflow?

I'm asking, because I'm unfamiliar with the forums of this site.

For instance; I am currently dealing with the question of what record types are typically considered a "must" to have as supporting evidence for a person in ones database.

While I don't expect an answer here, I should explain that I have amassed a substantial amount of supporting information on each of the people in my database.

Some of the information is simply such things as the indices that allowed me to find the actual records needed to support a Birth, Marriage or Death. Now that I have the certificates, these would seem to be of little value. What should one do with them? They seem to simply clutter the database.

[Pam Downes]

Hello HH,

Welcome to British-Genealogy.

The general rule is that you should keep enough details so that someone could follow your 'trail' if they didn't have the printed information (e.g. BMD certificates).

So if for instance I want to say that in 1905 my grandfather worked in an oil mill, I would record it something along the lines of 'birth certificate Freda Bloggs, birth registration March quarter 1905, Nottingham registration district, volume 25h page number 1023'. Exactly how you record it isn't important (spreadsheet, text document, family tree programme, etc) but you should always quote what they call 'the source citation'.

Some people take it to what I think are extremes by saying they found a birth registration on FreeBMD or a census reference on Findmypast. However if I don't have an original document and am relying on a transcript, then (depending on the record) I will say exactly where the transcript was. e.g. Suffolk FHS burial index, as found on FMP.

I've moved your query to the 'General family history' forum.

Pam

[Pam Downes]

If you mean what actual documents do you need, personally, I want BMD certificates for my direct ancestors.
Then baptism and burial records, plus the various censuses/1939 Register.
Other records to consider are education, military, wills, newspapers. Possibly emigration/immigation; criminal; naturalisation, workhouse/Poor Law.
There may be more I'm not familiar with.

Pam

[Megan Roberts]

Some of the information is simply such things as the indices that allowed me to find the actual records needed to support a Birth, Marriage or Death. Now that I have the certificates, these would seem to be of little value. What should one do with them? They seem to simply clutter the database.

The simple answer is that there is no hard and fast rule regarding what one keeps or disgards. That said you can weight records in order of importance. So for instance a birth certificate would "trump" a birth index.

My own approach has been where I have the relevant BMD certificate not to subsequently add a reference to the registration index but if that reference is already there and I subsequently acquire the corresponding certificate I rarely go back in and delete references to the indices. That might seem somewhat haphazard but so long as I can see the certificate it works for me, and ultimately that is the key to have something that works for you.

[History_Hunter]

Thank you Pam.

I tend to view my genealogical records in a similar manner and look to absolutely tie down the main line of decent via BMD certificates. My greatest problem is that my workflow (following) tends to generate a great deal of interim information in the form of Indices for which I subsequently obtained a certificate or scanned image of a Parish Register entry. That information can also be second hand accounts, webpage lists, scans of book pages etc. The real issue for me is that I wonder if I should get rid of this interim data once I have something more firm. Archiving some of this apparently redundant information is a filing nightmare and only serves to cloud the picture.

For information; my workflow is something like this:

1) I use Immigration and Census records (as available) to establish the general structure of the family tree, as well as to try to ensure that I have all the members of a family and their location at a point in time. This helps me later in searching for the BMD certificates for the main line and at least dates from index entries for the remainder.

2) Next I look for BMD Indices by means of which I can order the required BMD certificates for the main line and put Index dates on the rest. (If I stumble upon actual BMD Certificates or Parish Register data, I'll swap out the Index data for it.)

3) I will then often look in Parish Registers for Baptism/Christening and Burial records, especially if I can't find BMD Indices. I tend to treat them as secondary information and a way to find family groups and their headstones. That has helped on more than one occasion to provide solid Birth and Death dates, plus confirm family relationships. That in turn often allows me to go back and find the BMD Indices. If I find Death and Burial info, I do record it, because sometimes it's all I ever find. (Sometimes in searching the Parish Registers, I also find the actual BMD entries. These I take as being just as good or better than a BMD Certificate, since the certificate information is often drawn from the Parish Registers. As noted previously, I replace the Index data with this information.)

4) I don't have a lot of Wills, but I do like to try to get them for my main line of descent. I find that Wills only tend to help in identifying relatives or tying down locations, because one needs to first find the death or burial date to locate the will. For this reason, I tend to use them as a way of double-checking that I didn't miss a family member.

5) Beyond that, I do collect a lot of ancillary information along the way, but it usually doesn't impact the tree itself. So; I tend to file it and only enter that information that seems to "paint" a clearer picture of an ancestor on the direct line of descent.

[History_Hunter]

Megan;

I seem to be doing much as you are. However; the issue for me is not so much having extra references in my database. The issue is the amount of ancillary data I still have to physically or electronically file, when I've already found something better. I would tend to think that the Index data is no longer relevant once I have a Certificate. What do you do in this case? What do you do with information you stumbled upon in the course of your research, but see no point in entering into the database?

[Pam Downes]

Thank you Pam.

3) I will then often look in Parish Registers for Baptism/Christening and Burial records, especially if I can't find BMD Indices. I tend to treat them as secondary information and a way to find family groups and their headstones. That has helped on more than one occasion to provide solid Birth and Death dates, plus confirm family relationships. That in turn often allows me to go back and find the BMD Indices. If I find Death and Burial info, I do record it, because sometimes it's all I ever find. (Sometimes in searching the Parish Registers, I also find the actual BMD entries. These I take as being just as good or better than a BMD Certificate, since the certificate information is often drawn from the Parish Registers. As noted previously, I replace the Index data with this information).

Only ever for marriages. Never, ever, ever, for births and deaths.
Well, as far as England, Wales, Scotland, and to the best of my knowledge both Northern Ireland and Eire, are concerned.
Birth and death registrations are civil registrations, entered at Registrar's offices. Civil registration began on different dates in the various countries of the UK - 1 July 1837 for England and Wales.
Baptisms and burials are ecclesiastical events, entered in church registers. And baptisms and burials are not the same as births and deaths.
Marriages are both ecclesiastical and civil registration events.
Marriages are very often ecclesiastical events initially, though after civil registration began people could also marry in the Register Office. (The Office being where the Registrar works.)
When a couple marry in church they sign two registers. One is the church's parish register which is kept in the church. The other register (which has exactly the same layout as the church one) is sent to the local Registrar at the end of every quarter for the records to be entered as a civil registration. (You can imagine the chaos if the entries were sent on an individual basis!)

Depending on the church and/or the period in time, you might find birth dates written in the parish baptism register. Those dates should always be checked against the civil registration indexes. Though remember that you have a certain length of time in which to register a birth so someone born and baptised in June might not be registered as a birth until the September quarter.

Pam

[Guy Etchells]

My Question: What is the best forum in which to post questions regarding Genealogical Workflow?

I'm asking, because I'm unfamiliar with the forums of this site.

I shall ignore this question as Pam Downes (Super Moderator) has answered this by moving your posting to the most appropriate forum.

For instance; I am currently dealing with the question of what record types are typically considered a "must" to have as supporting evidence for a person in ones database.

While I don't expect an answer here, I should explain that I have amassed a substantial amount of supporting information on each of the people in my database.

Some of the information is simply such things as the indices that allowed me to find the actual records needed to support a Birth, Marriage or Death. Now that I have the certificates, these would seem to be of little value. What should one do with them? They seem to simply clutter the database.

Your example is more contentious as it is really mainly a matter of personal choice.
Pam has also given the standard answer to your example if you are interested in leaving your research for future generations but it is not the only answer.

If your research is for your own personal use the only person you have to account to is yourself.
BUT, as you get further back in your research it is more and more apparent that a family tree is built on the balance of probabilities rather than basic facts. (Couple A appear to be the correct parents as no others with similar names are in the area at the relevant time, or Couple B should be ruled out as they had a child 6 months earlier etc.)
What happens if you have bought the certificates and worked up your tree only to find further back things don’t seem to tie up perhaps a mother would have been too young to give birth or a father died earlier than possible to be the father? Or perhaps you find that the people you thought were the correct parents had actually moved from the area. You then need to re-trace what you have done, for recent events (back as far as the start of civil registration (1837)) it is simple to recheck your footsteps however perhaps this is prior to 1837 and you are using parish registers it is more difficult to locate the register you used for your information. In those cases the record sources or indexes are very useful.
That extra line in your database may save days or even weeks of looking.

Cheers
Guy

[Pam Downes]

The general rule is that you should keep enough details so that someone could follow your 'trail' if they didn't have the printed information (e.g. BMD certificates).

I think in the end you record/keep what information you feel you need to keep. Over the years there have been quite a few discussions about the best way to record your information (someone who had been researching for many years BC - before computers - used a card system and saw no reason to change).
There is no right or wrong way, though the quote above is a good rule to obey. It can come in quite handy if you ever need to double-check your own work. (Says the voice of 'been there, had to do that'. )
All that is essential is that you are as accurate as possible and where there is cause for doubt, say so, and say why.

Pam
who was s-l-ow-l-y typing when Guy posted

[History_Hunter]

Pam;
Sorry if I seemed to imply the equivalence of baptisms and births, burials and deaths. The certainly aren't and I only use baptisms and burials to help me in the general time and place to look for the birth and death info.

Your point about the parish registers for births and deaths not being the same as the civil registers is valid. Though, I'm not sure which is more reliable. I suspect that the Parish Registers might often be more accurate, since they are filled out closer to the event.

As for marriages, one would hope they are the same during the period when both exist. As you note, both books are signed at the event.

I should note that some of my certificates appear to be comprised of a scanned parish entry superposed on a government form.

All this said and done, I believe your point is that one should keep both the civil and ecclesiastical records. If it seemed as if I were saying that I get rid of one when I find the other, this is not the case. I will use whichever one I have unless or until I have both. If I have both, I'll look to see which appears to be most correct and use that data in the database (but keep both records in my files). The real issue is with the Indices, which I treat as a a "circa" date and finding aid until I can get the actual civil and/or ecclesiastical records. Once I have civil records, do the Indices really have any value?

Just an interesting point (not about British records) is that my birth certificate was issued by the local police station in Paris, France. It was typed on a plain sheet of inexpensive paper with an attestation signature by a witness. No reference number. This was in the 50's. Seems that Britain is FAR better at recording births than France. Not yet sure how they made sure they had accurate records.