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  1. #1
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    Talking Predicting Parents first names Wales

    I have John Jones ( i know...) born 1799 on 1851 census in Middlesex, and born 1798 by death certificate age of 62 in May 1860.

    Place of birth - Cardiganshire - Llanfihangel , not specified which.

    His children were named, in order of birth,
    JOHN THOMAS JONES 1822
    THOMAS JONES 1824
    ANN
    MARY
    ELIZABETH
    WILLIAM 1836
    GEORGE 1838

    His wife was Winifred, parents John and Mary

    Help please - I know there are conventions in England to the given names of children ; in Wales would this indicate that John Jones'( 1798) father was named John Thomas ? Reason is it could conceivably mean I should focus on finding a John Thomas in the 304 llanfihangels and thus progress the tree backwards

  2. #2
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    Theoretically it may not be very be different from the English naming conventions. HOWEVER, depending on factors, such as their first language, the part of Wales they came from, the dates etc. there is another aspect to be consider called the PATRONYMIC naming convention.

    I would really recommend this article from the Clwyd FHS, as a well worth read:

    https://www.clwydfhs.org.uk/helachau/patronymics.htm

  3. #3
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    I have just read through the article
    At a simplistic level the first son will have the same forenames as the fathers father - just using E+W naming pattern.
    Is that right?
    I am only trying to get the father of John Jones b.1798 right at this point.
    There are 3-4 Llanfihangels and one of them has no PR. Finding a John Thomas Jones born c. 1775 would be a localising aid I think

  4. #4
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    Any guidance from Welsh family history expertd sought.

    My only clue for the origin of my John Jones is the 1851 Census, in Middlesex- he is a tailor from " Llanfihangel Cardiganshire".
    Looking through Welsh census pages, there are masses of listings with "parish Llanfihangel" in the Aberystwyth district and sometime the term " Llanfihangel Upper" appears on the page heading.

    Does any one know if one of the four possible Cardiganshire Llanfihangel parishes was known simply as Llanfihangel ?

    Could the 1851 census be taken to be Creuddyn ? and worth an assumption without specific evidence ?
    Last edited by DocDAve; 04-11-2018 at 10:19 PM. Reason: typo

  5. #5
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    The 3 parishes you mention are distinctly different places. The link below takes you to the Cardiganshire page on GENUKI it will take you to a map and show you where it is actually located.

    I don't understand your last point, and leaping forward without any evidence is high risk.

    Many of the Welsh parish records, but not all, are on Findmypast. The Bishops Transcripts are held by the National Library of Wales, in Aberystwyth.

  6. #6
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    I made my questions too complicated .

    Amongst Cardiganshire folk is there a convention of calling one of the Llanfihangel's ( Genau'r glyn, Creuddyn, Ystrad) just Llanfihangel for short ?

    This thought came as I browsed pages of Creuddyn and reems of people are from plain Llanfihangel

  7. #7
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    I may be corrected on this, but I think that you need to find someone with Cardiganshire knowledge, and I don't think that there is anyone on this list with that. You could try:

    https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/CGN#Genealogy

    or alternatively contact the local family history society, which I think is Dyfdd FHS - https://www.dyfedfhs.org.uk/ and see if they can help with that kind of local knowledge.

  8. #8

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    I had a look at "UKgenealogy on line" to check if the baptismal registers for Llanfihangel Ystrad, Llanfihangel-y-Creuddyn and Llanfihangel Genau'r Glyn had been captured - unfortunately not.

    Looking at FMP it appears the baptismal registers are available on line dating from -

    LLanfihangel Ystrad - from 1799. There is a transcribed record for a John Jones, bap 21 Jun 1801 - but no parents named.
    Llanfihangel Genau'r Glyn - from 1806
    Llanfihangel y Creuddyn - from 1811

    Had you spotted John's , 1840 bankruptcy. The details, available on the London Gazette, agree with his 1841 address (Maddox Street).

    In 1851 he is at 105 Oxford Street and I spotted several newspaper adverts for a "Jones and Co., Milliners and Dressmakers, 105 Oxford Street", in the 1840s.
    "dyfal donc a dyr y garreg"

  9. #9
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    You are a star Indeed I have followed his bankruptcy notices.

    Is it possible there are bankruptcy records somewhere that could give the Golden Chalice - his DOB ?

    Last time I looked - FMP had released another 900k parish entries for Wales but not including Llanfihangel GG or y Creudddyn, only a few modern entries.

  10. #10

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    To check just what records were available on FMP I used the "OPTIONAL KEYWORDS" field. Separately, I used the search keys (a) creuddyn (1,408 hits), (b) genau'r (510 hits), (c) ystrad cardiganshire (2,012 hits ). Clicking on "Event" sorts the hits into ascending order, allowing you to identify the earliest.
    "dyfal donc a dyr y garreg"

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