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  1. #1
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    Default Died 1862 - Probate 1904

    Abraham Seaman died 18th April 1862. I have the death certificate which confirms his home address and matches a record in the Wills & Probate Calendar in 1904. Although the name is Abraham Seamans this has been a common 'mistake'. The date of death and home address match so it is definitely my man.

    The mystery is on several levels.

    1. The Probate was done 40 years after his death.

    2. Probate goes to "Emma Larkin widow". Emma Larkin was Abraham's daughter who had married Philip Larkin and was, in 1904, a widow. So, not Abraham's widow.

    3. The estate amounted to £592 and some shillings and pence in 1904. Abraham was a carpenter all his life so nearly £600 seems a lot of money for him to have left lying around - and for so long!

    4. Is it likely there is a Will to provide further information? Would the actual Probate documents provide anything further?

    Any thoughts/experience/ideas would be interesting!

    Thank you.

  2. #2
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    A quick update: I've just received the death certificate for Abraham's widow who died in 1885 ………. in the workhouse!

  3. #3
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    The only way to solve the mystery is to obtain a copy of the will. Wills are very much individual items.Although the wording may be similar, the contents always differ from person to person.

    re
    2. Probate goes to "Emma Larkin widow". Emma Larkin was Abraham's daughter who had married Philip Larkin and was, in 1904, a widow. So, not Abraham's widow.
    Widow was merely a description of Emma's status at the time. If her husband had still been alive she may well have been described as Emma Larkin, wife of Philip. That's how things worked in those days.

    Pam
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  4. #4
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    If they had been talking about the deceased's widow, she would have been described as the "relict".

    Granting probate so many years later probably relates either to the transfer of annuities or property leases.

    The fact that his widow died in a workhouse might be because she was hospitalised in some way, as they were also the only form of public hospital available. It might be worth looking to see if you can find records of the workhouse and when she was admitted and why.

  5. #5
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    Looking at the probate calendar, this was an administration, not a probate - in other words, there was no will. It's very unlikely that you'll find anything useful in the papers that you can order, other than possibly an address for Emma Larkin.

    With a long delayed probate or administration, the most likely scenario is that assets had come to light which hadn't been known about at the time of death, or that at a subsequent death it was found that property hadn't legally passed (by probate or administration) to the person who thought they owned them.

  6. #6
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    Thank you.

    I wasn't familiar with the phrase "the relict" and was pointing out that I knew who "Emma Larkin widow" was just to save anyone trying to find out.

    I see the point that the record is an administration and there will be no Will.

    I will see if I can check workhouse records to see if Elizabeth was an inmate or just, as suggested, in the hospital.

    It seems odd Elizabeth (Abraham's widow) wouldn't have known he had £600 (cash or assets and a tidy sum) tucked away somewhere and used them for herself and medical care when the time came.

    Arthurk's suggestion is that after Abraham and Elizabeth had died Emma discovered money or property or something and did the probate to inherit it? Of course, she may well then have distributed it amongst her siblings etc.

  7. #7
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    An Update:

    Looking again (and more carefully!) at the 1904 Probate record for Abraham Seaman (died 1862) I can see that Elizabeth Ann Seaman died in Nottingham in 1858 and Elizabeth Seaman (Abraham's widow) died in 1885 in the Union House and that both estates were taken to Administration by Emma Larkin.

    So, in 1904 Emma Larkin claimed Abraham's estate of £592, Elizabeth Ann's for £595 and Elizabeth (widow in the workhouse) of £181. It seems even more odd now that Elizabeth, the widow, had money and was in the workhouse - albeit the infirmary.

    Anyone have any ideas about what more, if anything, I can do to get to the bottom of this?

    Thank you!

  8. #8
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    I think that it is unlikely that you will discover exactly what it was all about, but it will have had something to do with the accessing of or transferring of something into her own name that couldn't be done without a grant of probate. I have seen it with property leases which have been passed down through a family over many generations or with insurances / annuities / pensions if there is some residual value.

    I think high unlikely that she discovered an unknown bank account 40 years after his death. Nor do I think she found a bag of cash and decided to declare it, as how would she know it was her father's and not originally declared?

  9. #9
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    In case anyone is thinking of taking this further, it might help you to know that there's a current thread on another forum where members have been looking at this same question. I haven't read every last word, but it looks as though someone may have managed to reconstruct the family and work out why the administration could have been delayed.

    Details at https://www.
    rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=800752.0

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