Margaret (Mary) Hopkinson

[Sandeea]

Margaret Mary Hopkinson (my husband’s great grandmother) is the subject for help to find out her true beginnings.
To give you a ‘picture’ of the family I have shown details below of some of the various members of the family.
Margaret Mary Hopkinson born c.1848 married George Griffiths on the 6th July 1873. Margaret’s father is shown as William Hopkinson (Bootmaker) and George’s father, Walter, is shown as a Farmer.
They were married at Normanton, All Saints, Yorkshire.
My understanding is that Margaret Mary Hopkinson (there are a few females in the family that have the Margaret Mary name), was born in Ireland (as per the 1881 census in the UK). The 1911 census shows that she was born in Tipperary, Ireland. In that census, her unmarried daughter, Mary who Margaret Mary Hopkinson brought with her to the marriage of George Griffiths is living with her as is Tom Griffiths, Margaret Mary’s son with George Griffiths. John Fowle is also there as a boarder. He married Margaret Mary’s daughter, Florence in 1915. Mariah Iles (a widow) is also there. Mariah Iles is Margaret Mary’s mother in law. Mariah married a Richard Iles after the death of her husband, Walter Griffiths who was George Griffiths father. Sorry this is so confusing. I know that all of these people in the 1911 census are my husband’s relatives and I haven’t picked up other people of a similar name.
I do not know the name of the father of Mary, Margaret’s eldest daughter, (who is known as a Griffiths). There are many people on Ances. who show the family of Margaret Mary Hopkinson residing in Trawden, Lancashire. They also show that James Hopkinson and Ellen Hopkinson nee Pickles are the parents. Originally, I thought this too, but changed it when I found the marriage record of George Griffiths and Margaret Hopkinson. Her father was shown as William Hopkinson (Bootmaker). Could this be another couple with the same names as my husband’s great grandparents? I have not been successful in finding any census records for Margaret Mary Hopkinson for the years, 1851-61-71. I did notice that a William and Ann Jones who were witnesses at the marriage of George Griffiths and Margaret Hopkinson lived nearby to them in the 1881 census. Another possibility I suppose is that William Hopkinson may have been Margaret’s grandfather and not her father. I have William Hopkinson on my husband’s tree with a c.1820 birth. I only used that date just to give William an approximate birth date. If he was her grandfather, I’m sure his birth date would be quite a few years earlier.
So, what I really would like to find is proof that Margaret Mary Hopkinson who married George Griffiths in 1873 was born in Ireland and not Lancashire. Also, the names of both Margaret Mary Hopkinson’s parents and any other pertinent details relating to Margaret Mary Hopkinson and her ancestral family. I would like to add that I have referred to Margaret Hopkinson on my tree as Margaret Mary Hopkinson due to the fact that when I mentioned her to my late mother in law, she stated that all the Margaret’s in the family were ‘Margaret Mary’ which was my mother in law’s name as well.
Trying to find anything in Irish documents has not been successful for me.
Thank you to anyone who can get through this ‘brickwall’ by finding the answers to all (well, most) of my questions.
Sandeea

[almach]

Hi Sandeea, I'm posting some census records which will help me and others (I know you probably have them). I note on two censuses Margaret is entered as born in Sheffield, also her daughter Mary Hopkinson is born Sheffield. I looked at the Irish census and there were no Hopkinsons' in Tipperary, most were in Antrim.

1881, Normanton, RG11; Piece: 4572; Folio: 133; Page: 3;
George Griffiths 29, iron moulder, Batteyford? Yorkshire
Margeret Griffiths 33, Ireland
George A. Griffiths 5, Normanton
Walter W. Griffiths 3, Normanton
Tom Griffiths 9 months, Normanto.

1891, Middlesborough, Linthorpe, Yorkshire, RG12; Piece: 4013; Folio: 108; Page: 25
Geo Griffiths 39, iron moulder, Castleford
Margt Griffiths 42, Sheffield
Geo A Griffiths 15, Normanton
Walter W Griffiths 13, Normanton
Tom Griffiths 10, Middlesbrough
Margt A G Griffiths 8, Leeds
May A Griffiths 8, Durham Stockton (unsure what it says for relation possibly niece)
Alice E Griffiths 5, Northumberland
Florance M Griffiths 2, ?????????????????

1901, Middlesbrough, RG13; Piece: 4581; Folio: 162; Page: 12
George Griffiths 49, iron moulder, Castleford.
Margaret Griffiths 51, Sheffield
Walter Griffiths 23, Normanton
Tom Griffiths 20, Normanton
Moriah Griffiths 18, Leeds
Alice Griffiths 15, Stockton Durham
Florice [sic] Griffiths 12, Northumberland
Moriah Griffiths 66, mother, widow, Snaith Yorks

1911, Preston upon Tees RG14; Piece: 29586
Margaret Griffiths 68, widow, married 33yrs, 8 children, 7 still living. Tiperary Ireland
Mary Griffiths 45, Sheffield
Tom Griffiths 30, Normanton
John Lower 20, boarder, Marske by sea,
Mariah Iles 78, mother in law, widow, married 50yrs, 6 children, 2 still living, Snaith.

[almach]

John Fowle is also there as a boarder. He married Margaret Mary’s daughter, Florence in 1915.

1939 register, 11 Sandringham Road, Thornaby on Tees
John K Fowle railway guard, born 17th Nov 1890
Florence M Fowle, 11th Jan 1889
Mary HOPKINS, 16th Aug 1865

If Mary is Florence's half sister perhaps the surname is Hopkins, not Hopkinson????

I haven't found a Mary Hopkinson birth for 1865 in the 3rd qrt which is the correct qrt for an Aug 16th birth, but did find this.
HOPKINS, MARY, mother's maiden name KENNEDY
GRO Reference: 1865 S Quarter in SHEFFIELD Volume 09C Page 337

These are census references for Mary

1891, RG12; Piece: 4163; Folio: 7; Page: 7
1881, RG11; Piece: 4572; Folio: 150; Page: 37
1901, RG13; Piece: 4055; Folio: 82; Page: 16

[almach]

There's this possible for Margaret in 1871
Holbeck Leeds. RG10; Piece: 4522; Folio: 89; Page: 22;

William Burton 31
Alice Burton 31
Emily Burton 7
Joseph Burton 6 Months
Margaret Hopkins 25, servant, born Tipperary


And maybe Mary in 1871

Sheffield RG10; Piece: 4679; Folio: 67; Page: 4;
Andrew Hopkins 25, Ireland
Mary Hopkins 71, Ireland
Thomas Hopkins 11, nephew Sheffield
Mary Hopkins 5, niece, Sheffield

[almach]

I'm over tired now, so have to leave it. If no-one else picks up the baton I'll comeback to your query later. I'm hoping Andrew Hopkins and his mother Mary will lead us to Margaret's father, William.

[Dundee10]

Margaret's children up until Florence were registered with the mother's maiden surname as HOPKINS.

[Sandeea]

Almach - thank you so much for your posts to me. This means a lot to me and I'm going to check everything out. Also, regarding your post No.2. May A Griffiths (niece). Yes, she was the daughter of George Griffiths brother and his wife. His wife died in 1885 and George Griffiths and Margaret Mary Griffiths then brought this little girl up.
As regards the Hopkins name. I have a birth certificate for my husband's grandmother (Alice Elizabeth Griffiths). It is a typed certified copy under the Births and Deaths Registration Act, 1953. It shows that the mother of Alice Elizabeth Griffiths is Margaret Griffiths formerly Hopkins. I sort of disregarded this as I thought it could be a 'typo'. However, I have often wondered about it but didn't know how that could be sorted, perhaps by buying another certificate which might or might not show Hopkinson or contacting the GRO to ask a few questions. As it turned out, I didn't do anything! However, the information you have given me could be what I am looking for. Anyway, I'll look more closely at everything you have provided and see what I can find out. If you happen to find anything further, it will definitely be appreciated.

Sandeea

[Sandeea]

Dundee 10...Thank you for that.

[Sandeea]

I have been looking into census papers and I think there are possibilities with the 1881 and 1891 years where there is a Mary Griffiths working as a cook/servant at a hotel as a general servant (1881) in Normanton and as a cook/domestic servant (1891) for a solicitor and his wife and child in Whitburn, Durham. However, the 1939 England & Wales Register show Mary Hopkins as an unpaid domestic working/living at the home of her half sister, Florence and brother in law, John Fowles. She is aged 74 years at this time and the age fits in with other records available. A query is why has she reverted to her original surname at this time. Perhaps this Register had to be more 'correct'. I do want to obtain as much information as I can regarding Mary. She has become our latest family 'mystery' among quite a few others we've picked up along the way.
Sandeea

[almach]

A query is why has she reverted to her original surname at this time. Perhaps this Register had to be more 'correct'. I do want to obtain as much information as I can regarding Mary.

I'm no expert on the 1939 register, but imagine people were instruced to enter the name given on their birth certificate, which in Mary's case was probably Hopkins. There were no formal adoptions in England until late 1920's.