Help with a burial record

[AudreyF]

I have the burial record for Sidney Johnson in Walthamstow in 1911 and his wife, Martha on the same record in 1915. It looks as though they went into the same plot. The record is titled "Register of Grave Spaces in Unconsecrated Ground". Should I assume this was not a churchyard? A Council cemetary?

The record does not show who purchased the grave for them although some other records on the same page have a name - usually family by the look of it.

Rather gruesomely the record notes the depth of the grave with Sidney going in as the first at 8 feet deep and Martha going in at 7 feet deep. There is a third name noted as 1943 and 6 feet deep but the name is crossed through and a note in the margin says "no reply" so I assume he wasn't buried in the grave. Two further bodies went into the grave in 1959 and 1968 at 7 feet and 6 feet and they seem to be related to each other and related to the purchaser of the grave with a local address.

I've never come across anything like this before (I haven't had many burial records to deal with) so am interested in any background/additional information you might be able to offer.

Thank you.

[Megan Roberts]

I have never seen a burial record such as you have described. However, based on it being in unconsecrated ground I would guess that it was not a churchyard and therefore probably a council / municipal site.

I am surprised to see so many interred in the same plot, because I had thought that there was a maximum of 3 persons - certainly all the family graves that I have seen are like that. Indeed the only one with more is a "double grave" i.e. one that is 3 x 2 so has 6 persons from the same family with a double width headstone.

I wonder if it is worth asking a local undertaker if they can shed any light on the subject?

[AudreyF]

The cemetary concerned is the Queen's Road cemetary in Waltham Forest and I have been 'Googling' to try and find out more. It's an interesting read but hasn't been very helpful. But, one site does say that the cheapest graves could have as many as ten people (children) in them and that they were re-sold and re-used after a set number of years.

The gruesomeness of it grows!

[Peter Goodey]

"Consecrated ground" simply means consecrated by an Anglian bishop. Therefore this is the part of a cemetery set aside for members of the C of E (in England). "Unconsecrated ground" refers to the area for all other denominations and religions.

[sandiep]

I have been looking at anumber of burials for my families and some of them have quite a number of people buried in them it doesn't seem to be unusual this is what the site Deceased online says

Other interments in a grave are most useful in finding additional members of the family, as purchased graves can hold members of the family related directly or by marriage. However, if the grave is un-purchased (sometimes known as a "common" grave, or historically as a "paupers grave") then it is unlikely that interments in the grave will be of relatives, as these graves were used for those that couldn't afford to purchase exclusive burial rights in a plot, and typically hold a larger number of interments than privately purchased graves. The information about whether a grave is purchased or not is not always available on the website, but if a grave contains a large number of interments, and/or if the family names of the deceased are all different, then it is probably un-purchased.
Additionally, on rare occasions, fixed term burial rights in graves may have been re-sold on expiry to unrelated persons, in which case the original remains should still be recorded as being in the grave.

[emmteeyess]

Peter Goodey's answer in #4 is right for the 'definition' of consecrated ground v. unconsecrated ground.
In the burial registers for my two local municipal cemetery's in Sunderland there are many examples of various depths of grave - just going down one page there is 6ft, 7ft, 9ft and a very specific 4ft 9inches.
Frequently the records are marked '2nd interment' and where I've checked grave numbers relating to my family tree they've generaly been husband and wife (and one with adult brother and sister.) I also have a burial of twin infants with the record marked 'in 1 coffin'
Some of the grave indexes I have seen do appear to have unrelated names intered in them (tho they may be inlaws) and these would fit the re-sold and re-used scenario you mention above. Not really that gruesome, and cetainly not that unusual.

[AudreyF]

Interesting - thank you. I believe the first two burials in the grave were my ancestors (a husband and wife) who died four years apart but that, thereafter, the burials in that grave were unrelated to my family although related to each other and to the person who had, by then, bought the grave.

My own maternal grandmother bought a plot in a local churchyard when her husband died. She believed that she owned the plot and intended to be put in there when she died. Unfortunately, grandmother lived longer than she might have expected and when the family asked for her to go in with grandfather they were told that it was no longer a family grave and someone else had gone in. It was agreed it could be opened for grandmother's ashes to go in.

[sandiep]

think I have seen it all now just looking at a burial in Nunhead Cemetery and there are 27 people under grave details all buried in 1906!!!