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  1. #1
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    Default Emily Sophia Black - parentage & childhood?

    Emily Sophia Black, mother Elizabeth Manning, was born about 1886 in Peterborough, England, UK. Her parents' marriage record gives Elizabeth's husband's name as Gustave Felix Black, a Frenchman, son of Jeremie Black of France.

    Ok, that's all well and good so far. Over on Ancestry we found records for son Felix William Black and daughter Blanche (Rosella? Roselia?) Black, the latter born in 1881.

    Then I run into the first problem. On the 1881 census, Elizabeth seems to be widowed, and there's a death certificate for Gustave Felix Black from 1880.

    By 1891, Elizabeth has remarried (maybe? Marriage record not found) to Thomas Smith, and they live with her parents, Joseph and I think it was Harriet Manning.

    1901 she's widowed AGAIN and has four children, according to her daughter's census record:
    Name: Blanche Black
    [Blanche Smith]
    Age: 23
    Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
    Relation to Head: Daughter
    Gender: Female
    Mother: Elizabeth Smith
    Birth Place: Manchester, Lancashire, England
    Civil Parish: Leicester formerly St Margaret
    Ecclesiastical parish: St Margaret
    Town: Leicester
    County/Island: Leicestershire
    Registration district: Leicester
    Sub-registration district: North West Leicester
    ED, institution, or vessel: 17
    Piece: 2987
    Folio: 155
    Page Number: 6
    Household schedule number: 46
    Household Members:
    Name Age
    Elizabeth Smith 47
    William Black 24 (Felix William on his birth record)
    Blanche Black 23
    Sophia Smith 12
    Florence Smith 9
    Florence Strane 19

    This is the same census where a few years ago this site's members found Emily Black at Stockport, Cheshire's Certified Industrial School for Girls, age 14, daughter of "William Black". Emily Sophia didn't appear in the 1891 census with her mother, or *anywhere* so far as I could tell. And Sophia "Sophy" Smith isn't Emily Sophia, being two years too young and in the wrong place.

    And in 1909, Emily Sophia becomes Emily Sophia Nield, marrying Robert Nield, my great-grandfather. On the 1911 census she's in his parents' home and with their first child.

    So I do know a bit about her. But not enough. Who was her real father? Why was she claimed as the child of a man who died six years before she was born? Why did she claim to be the daughter of "William" Black, who (other than her big brother) doesn't seem to exist in association with her?

    Where did she go after leaving the Industrial School? There's just so much I want to know, and I've been told the National Archives at Kew hold the answers. Unfortunately I'm an American struggling to get by on disability and have no way to travel to England, much as I would love to. Is there anyone here who's able to untangle the threads of Emily Sophia's mysterious past?

    (I have a million questions about my supposed great-great-grandfather, Gustave Felix Black, son of Jeremie and Angelique Mouard Black of France, but I don't know whether any of you might be able to help me with them at all.)

    I'm grateful for whatever you can do. Thank you in advance,

    Elizabeth Nield

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    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    1871 RG10 Piece 928 Folio 53 Page 14
    High Street Tunbridge Wells Kent
    Frederic J Ravenscroft 39 married Hairdresser Stratford upon Avon
    Marian wife 28 Southboro Kent
    Frederic W son 3 Tunbridge Wells
    Percy son 1 Tunbridge wells
    Gustave F Black 29 Assistant Birth place Havre France, (The transcription just says France but the image has what looks to me like Havre (Le Havre?)

    Christina
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    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    took a while to find Blanche Rosalie's birth registration
    Blanche Rosalie Blaque Chorlton vol 8c page 811 June 1/4 1878 mmn Manning
    Also on FreeBMD as Blanche Rosalie Blacqur 8c 8[14] Chorlton

    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
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    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    You say in 1891 Elizabeth is with Thomas Smith and her parents Joseph and Hannah? Manning so who is this in 1891 RG12 Piece 2531 Folio 77 Page 29
    Richard Mariot Head Married 72 Nottinghamshire - Baker
    Emma Wife 70. no birth place
    Isaac Barningham Lodger Widower 53 Durham, Carpenter
    Thomas Smith Lodger Married 44 Cambridgeshire, Carpenter
    Elizabeth Smith Lodger Married 36 Northamptonshire,
    Felix Black Lodger Single 14 Yorkshire, General Servant
    James Whitworth Lodger Single 32 Leicestershire, General Servant
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
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    Blanche Rosella Black married Frank Collings, June quarter 1901, Leicester - 7a/644 (and died in 1967)

    Felix William Black had a daughter Rosella so I think that is the correct name

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    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change. Pam Downes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElizabethNield View Post
    Emily Sophia Black, mother Elizabeth Manning, was born about 1886 in Peterborough, England, UK. Her parents' marriage record gives Elizabeth's husband's name as Gustave Felix Black, a Frenchman, son of Jeremie Black of France.

    Ok, that's all well and good so far. Over on Ancestry we found records for son Felix William Black and daughter Blanche (Rosella? Roselia?) Black, the latter born in 1881.

    Then I run into the first problem. On the 1881 census, Elizabeth seems to be widowed, and there's a death certificate for Gustave Felix Black from 1880.

    By 1891, Elizabeth has remarried (maybe? Marriage record not found) to Thomas Smith, and they live with her parents, Joseph and I think it was Harriet Manning.

    1901 she's widowed AGAIN and has four children, according to her daughter's census record:
    Name: Blanche Black
    [Blanche Smith]
    Age: 23
    Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
    Relation to Head: Daughter
    Gender: Female
    Mother: Elizabeth Smith
    Birth Place: Manchester, Lancashire, England
    Civil Parish: Leicester formerly St Margaret
    Ecclesiastical parish: St Margaret
    Town: Leicester
    County/Island: Leicestershire
    Registration district: Leicester
    Sub-registration district: North West Leicester
    ED, institution, or vessel: 17
    Piece: 2987
    Folio: 155
    Page Number: 6
    Household schedule number: 46
    Household Members:
    Name Age
    Elizabeth Smith 47
    William Black 24 (Felix William on his birth record)
    Blanche Black 23
    Sophia Smith 12
    Florence Smith 9
    Florence Strane 19

    This is the same census where a few years ago this site's members found Emily Black at Stockport, Cheshire's Certified Industrial School for Girls, age 14, daughter of "William Black". Emily Sophia didn't appear in the 1891 census with her mother, or *anywhere* so far as I could tell. And Sophia "Sophy" Smith isn't Emily Sophia, being two years too young and in the wrong place.

    And in 1909, Emily Sophia becomes Emily Sophia Nield, marrying Robert Nield, my great-grandfather. On the 1911 census she's in his parents' home and with their first child.
    This is the previous thread Elizabeth is referring to.
    https://www.british-genealogy.com/th...elated-queries
    I haven't read through the thread to see if there is anything more relevant other than finding Emily at the Industrial School in the census.

    Pam
    Vulcan XH558 - “Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.”

  7. #7
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    Joseph Manning married Harriet RIMES, June quarter 1841, Peterborough

    Sophia Manning born Peterborough 1842, mmn RHYMES
    John Manning born Peterborough 1845, mmn RIMES
    Joseph Manning born Peterborough 1850, mmn RIMES
    Elizabeth Manning born Peterborough 1853, mmn RHIMES
    Fandon (male) Manning born Peterborough 1856, mmn RIMES

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by ElizabethNield View Post
    and there's a death certificate for Gustave Felix Black from 1880.
    do you actually have that death certificate ? I note he is just Gustave Black with no middle name in the death index

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    Quote Originally Posted by christanel View Post
    1871 RG10 Piece 928 Folio 53 Page 14
    High Street Tunbridge Wells Kent
    Frederic J Ravenscroft 39 married Hairdresser Stratford upon Avon
    Marian wife 28 Southboro Kent
    Frederic W son 3 Tunbridge Wells
    Percy son 1 Tunbridge wells
    Gustave F Black 29 Assistant Birth place Havre France, (The transcription just says France but the image has what looks to me like Havre (Le Havre?)

    Christina
    I believe it's Le Havre, yes. Though I don't know anything about Le Havre.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by christanel View Post
    took a while to find Blanche Rosalie's birth registration
    Blanche Rosalie Blaque Chorlton vol 8c page 811 June 1/4 1878 mmn Manning
    Also on FreeBMD as Blanche Rosalie Blacqur 8c 8[14] Chorlton

    Christina
    Blaque, that's interesting...I wonder if that's the original spelling of Gustave Felix's surname then.

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