Help finding records of Robert George Black

[jdchisim]

Hello all.

I am about to share with you a source of great frustration in my family tree relating to a Robert George Black and his family line and I am hoping someone could potentially help me.

There are a number of issues with regards to Robert. I know a fair bit about him and his movements but I don't know where he was born.

There are a number of different records which show his date of birth varying.

This is his record from the 1911 Irish Census: https://www.census.nationalarchives.i...Street/184443/

In 1901 he is living in England and working as a driller - I think it was in Barrow in Furness.

The census record shows that he was born in Antrim, Ireland.

This is where the soldier connection comes in:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....23/5832947.pdf

This is his marriage certificate and it shows that his father is also a Robert George Black who is a soldier.

I know from his state death record that he died on the 2nd February 1961 aged 86. Making him born circa 1875. The census record linked makes him born 1873-1874. The marriage to his second wife Rebecca Gregory shows him born 1876-1877.

I think it may also have been possible that Robert George Black jr (the RGB named in the marriage record, not his son in the census) was also potentially a soldier at some point. I have found a record for a Robert George Blacks conscription but he would have been younger than the age ranges we have.

The short service sheet for the Robert George Black shows a Robert George Black of the Shankhill, Belfast signing in 19th December 1890 aged 18 years 10 months making his date of birth 1872. It says that he belongs to the 4th Battalion of the Royal Irish Rifles and he is willing to join the Royal Irish Fusiliers.

Due to the ranges of births, it's really not clear if this is him.

Any assistance with this would be greatly appreciated. I know Robert George Black jr did not die in combat but perhaps his father did as there is no trace of him in any records.

Many thanks.

[gortonboy]

The chap in the military record you found was discharged due to desertion,and sent to prison. His next of kin is given as Mary Ann of 93 Hornby street, Belfast. He has an elder brother William.

[Dundee10]

Perhaps a long shot but there is a Robert George BLICK, birth registered 1874 in Belfast and he is the illegitimate son of Mary Ann BLICK.

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....64/2160811.pdf

I see that Robert and Eliza gave children William and Lily the middle name 'Marshall', have you found any connections with that yet?

[jdchisim]

Thanks for the posts.

That's interesting Dundee.

Previously I had posted on rootschat about this - not regarding military history though.

We had found a William John Marshall who had married a Mary Ann Black. Though Mary Ann subsequently died and William Marshall remarried. Here was the thoughts at the time:

The Lily Marshall Black born to Robert Black and Eliza Jane Black was born at 11 Harold Street
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....43/1782454.pdf

on 13th April 1899. Mary Ann Marshall would then have been their neighbour at residence 10 Harold Street at her death in 1900 so there is 100% definitely a connection there.

Looking at the census records it states that William John Marshall was born in Armagh. This is a bit of a jump but, Robert George Black mentioned signed on in Armagh. Given the fact that Mary's father was also a soldier it is entirely possible that Robert George Black (soldier and RG Black who we are investigating foremost, father) was an associate of Mary's father and in someway is connected to being the wife of Mary Ann Black who was then widowed.

I also note that there's other links with the streets between William John Marshall and RG Black and Eliza Black, albeit in some cases a bit more distant.

William Marshall Black (son of RG) was born in 1896 at 84 Hillview Street.
Lizzie Marshall was born 1889 at 28 Hillview Street.
Lily Black (as already mentioned) born at 11 Harold Street in 1899.
Elizabeth Marshall born at 5 Harold Street in 1898
Frederick John Marshall born at 2 Harold Street in 1887
Frederick John Marshall dies at 13 Lebanon Street in 1887
Sarah Black born at 16 Lebanon Street 1904
Jeanie Black born at 9 Lebanon Street 1909

Then given the driller profession link with RG Blacks I think there may be something as well.

It's also interesting as gortonboy just said that he was the son of a Mary Ann Black of Hornby Street.

Gaffy on the forum made this post:

1. A Robert George Black enlisted at Armagh in the Royal Irish Fusiliers in December 1890 (he was already in the Royal Irish Rifles) and was discharged again in 1892, he was recorded as a single man, a labourer, born in Shankill parish Belfast, and as 18 years 10 months old. The next of kin were given as his elder brother William and mother Mary Ann [no surname mentioned] of 93 Hornby Street Belfast.

2. The 1890 Belfast street directory on the Lennon Wylie website shows the following entry for Hornby Street: 93. Marshall, Wm., driller
https://www.lennonwylie.co.uk/hijkcomplete1890.htm

3. A 5 month old John Marshall died on 5 November 1889 at 93 Hornby Street, his father recorded as William John Marshall of that address:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....27/4749985.pdf

4. It seems that John above was one of twins, John and Lizzie, who were born to parents William John Marshall and Mary Ann Black on 16 May 1889, the other twin Lizzie died aged 9 in 1898:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....77/1919560.pdf
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy....33/4651803.pdf

https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=784780.0 - Thread in question.

So everything you guys have posted is definitely a part of this puzzle.

But I had never seen that record before Dundee. Unfortunately this seems to all be speculation at this point. But the evidence is kind of there.

Interesting. Though the soldier record and the birth don't necessarily tie up. Also if that is indeed the record and he was an illegitimate child. I wonder where does the Robert Black father come in?

In both RGB jrs marriages his father is stated to be a Robert Black.