+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 8 of 8
  1. #1
    Newcomer to Brit-Gen
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    3
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Cool James Shand (the younger)

    Hi

    I have hit a brick wall with James (a pretty common name in my family) I can't find a birth record. I have searched all possible versions of names that I can think of within 5yrs of suspected date but nothing.

    James Aley SHAND (or Alex on son's baptism record) was born (according to the 1881 census) in 1829, Bermondsey.

    He married Georgiana (also recorded as Georgina) PIKE in 1852 in Bethnal Green, London. In the record he is incorrectly transcribed as STRAND (can you see why I am having so much difficulty) Father of the groom listed as James SHAND (the elder I am assuming)

    Any help greatly appreciated, been going round in circles for months

    Jo Shand (the only)

  2. #2
    Super Moderator almach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,272
    Thanks
    493
    Thanked 1,091 Times in 1,014 Posts

    Default

    Hi Jo, I can see why you are so much difficulty. I too haven't found a baptism for James.

    Whilst trying to find James' ancestry I saved some searches with I thought may help me (so far they haven't!) Although you may have these records I'll post them anyway as they could be useful to others who may want to try and help.

    1851,St Mary Magdalen, Bermondsey HO107; Piece: 1561; Folio: 330; Page: 50
    William Swindon 29, dockland Surrey
    Sarah Swindon 24, St Marylebone
    Sarah Swindon 6
    William Swindon 1
    James Shade 21, visitor, Bermondsey
    Georgana Shade 20, Bermondsey

    1881, James has Harry and Matilda Harcum living with him, they are entered as cousins.

    Matilda Harriet Shand married Harry George Harcum 25 Dec 1869, St John, Horselydown, Southwark.

    In 1851 Matilda Shand age 3 months, is with her parents Henry C.Shand and Mary Shand and siblings, HO107; Piece: 1559; Folio: 457; Page: 29

    Henry Cox Shand and Mary Ball married 23 Jul 1840, Holy Trinity Newington, Henry a mariner, his father George a sail maker. The witnesses were George Long Shand and Mary Ann Shand, Henry's address 2, Bermondsey New Town

    1841 Census, New St, St Mary Magdalen, Bermondsey.
    relationships not given on 1841 census. I imagine the three younger children are relatives, possibly grandchildren. I haven't found Agnes or Alfred after 1841.
    Geo Shand 58, sail maker,
    Sarah Shand 54
    Sarah Shand 30
    Edwin Shand 27
    James Shand 12 (possibly, your James?)
    Alfred Shand 7
    Agnes Shand 5

    Whilst looking at these Shands I noticed many had a surname as their middle name, have you tried searching for Aley to see if that name leads you to James?
    Alma

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to almach For This Useful Post:

    jofreebird (30-07-2018)

  4. #3
    Brick wall demolition expert!
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    wales
    Posts
    2,022
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 795 Times in 723 Posts

    Default

    In your earlier post re. James Shand, you state his marriage certificate gives father's name as James. However, you didn't provide his father's occupation/profession. Do you have those details?
    "dyfal donc a dyr y garreg"

  5. #4
    Super Moderator almach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,272
    Thanks
    493
    Thanked 1,091 Times in 1,014 Posts

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by helachau View Post
    In your earlier post re. James Shand, you state his marriage certificate gives father's name as James. However, you didn't provide his father's occupation/profession. Do you have those details?
    Hi Helachau, these are the details from the marriage certificate.

    March 21st 1852, St Philip, Bethnal Green.
    James Aley Shand, 22, wool mat dresser, 4, York St, father James Shand (wool mat dresser)
    Georgiana Pike, 22, 4, York St, father Timothy Pike (mariner)
    Witnesses: Thomas Franks? and Helen Rebecca Lindley? (unsure of surnames, writing is shaky)
    Alma

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to almach For This Useful Post:

    jofreebird (30-07-2018)

  7. #5
    Knowledgeable and helpful
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Queensland
    Posts
    695
    Thanks
    1
    Thanked 380 Times in 308 Posts

    Default

    This is probably relevant because it seems like too much of a coincidence - marriage banns were read at St Mary, Newington between a Georgiana PIKE and James Aley SAUNDERS in 1850.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Dundee10 For This Useful Post:

    jofreebird (30-07-2018)

  9. #6
    Super Moderator Lesley Robertson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    4,455
    Thanks
    664
    Thanked 1,500 Times in 1,162 Posts

    Default

    Aley can be a spelling variation for Alie - sometimes shore for Alaister.....

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to Lesley Robertson For This Useful Post:

    jofreebird (30-07-2018)

  11. #7
    Brick wall demolition expert!
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    wales
    Posts
    2,022
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 795 Times in 723 Posts

    Default

    Just read details of the inquest on James Aley Shand, age 65, in the South London Press, 16 April 1892, living at 11 Princes Road, Bermondsey, wool rag manufacturer.

    Age at death confirms the 1829 or thereabouts birth date
    "dyfal donc a dyr y garreg"

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to helachau For This Useful Post:

    jofreebird (30-07-2018)

  13. #8
    Newcomer to Brit-Gen
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    3
    Thanks
    5
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

    Default Thanks everyone..

    thanks everyone, wow, where did SAUNDERS come from!!!

    Have read all inquest information about his last meal.

    I have tried all variations spelling Aley, even just searching for James A. or even Aley Shand without the James altogether. Still no luck. (Incidentally, my older brother is called Alasdair!)

    I don't have a Matilda Harriet Shand on my tree, or Henry Cox Shand

    You did better than me deciphering the marriage record, I complained to the record office that the copy they sent me was unreadable!

    Where do I go from here then? It seems I am no further backwards/forwards.

    Jo

+ Reply to Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Select a file: