James Shand (the younger)

[jofreebird]

Hi

I have hit a brick wall with James (a pretty common name in my family) I can't find a birth record. I have searched all possible versions of names that I can think of within 5yrs of suspected date but nothing.

James Aley SHAND (or Alex on son's baptism record) was born (according to the 1881 census) in 1829, Bermondsey.

He married Georgiana (also recorded as Georgina) PIKE in 1852 in Bethnal Green, London. In the record he is incorrectly transcribed as STRAND (can you see why I am having so much difficulty) Father of the groom listed as James SHAND (the elder I am assuming)

Any help greatly appreciated, been going round in circles for months

Jo Shand (the only)

[almach]

Hi Jo, I can see why you are so much difficulty. I too haven't found a baptism for James.

Whilst trying to find James' ancestry I saved some searches with I thought may help me (so far they haven't!) Although you may have these records I'll post them anyway as they could be useful to others who may want to try and help.

1851,St Mary Magdalen, Bermondsey HO107; Piece: 1561; Folio: 330; Page: 50
William Swindon 29, dockland Surrey
Sarah Swindon 24, St Marylebone
Sarah Swindon 6
William Swindon 1
James Shade 21, visitor, Bermondsey
Georgana Shade 20, Bermondsey

1881, James has Harry and Matilda Harcum living with him, they are entered as cousins.

Matilda Harriet Shand married Harry George Harcum 25 Dec 1869, St John, Horselydown, Southwark.

In 1851 Matilda Shand age 3 months, is with her parents Henry C.Shand and Mary Shand and siblings, HO107; Piece: 1559; Folio: 457; Page: 29

Henry Cox Shand and Mary Ball married 23 Jul 1840, Holy Trinity Newington, Henry a mariner, his father George a sail maker. The witnesses were George Long Shand and Mary Ann Shand, Henry's address 2, Bermondsey New Town

1841 Census, New St, St Mary Magdalen, Bermondsey.
relationships not given on 1841 census. I imagine the three younger children are relatives, possibly grandchildren. I haven't found Agnes or Alfred after 1841.
Geo Shand 58, sail maker,
Sarah Shand 54
Sarah Shand 30
Edwin Shand 27
James Shand 12 (possibly, your James?)
Alfred Shand 7
Agnes Shand 5

Whilst looking at these Shands I noticed many had a surname as their middle name, have you tried searching for Aley to see if that name leads you to James?

[helachau]

In your earlier post re. James Shand, you state his marriage certificate gives father's name as James. However, you didn't provide his father's occupation/profession. Do you have those details?

[almach]

In your earlier post re. James Shand, you state his marriage certificate gives father's name as James. However, you didn't provide his father's occupation/profession. Do you have those details?

Hi Helachau, these are the details from the marriage certificate.

March 21st 1852, St Philip, Bethnal Green.
James Aley Shand, 22, wool mat dresser, 4, York St, father James Shand (wool mat dresser)
Georgiana Pike, 22, 4, York St, father Timothy Pike (mariner)
Witnesses: Thomas Franks? and Helen Rebecca Lindley? (unsure of surnames, writing is shaky)

[Dundee10]

This is probably relevant because it seems like too much of a coincidence - marriage banns were read at St Mary, Newington between a Georgiana PIKE and James Aley SAUNDERS in 1850.

[Lesley Robertson]

Aley can be a spelling variation for Alie - sometimes shore for Alaister.....

[helachau]

Just read details of the inquest on James Aley Shand, age 65, in the South London Press, 16 April 1892, living at 11 Princes Road, Bermondsey, wool rag manufacturer.

Age at death confirms the 1829 or thereabouts birth date

[jofreebird]

thanks everyone, wow, where did SAUNDERS come from!!!

Have read all inquest information about his last meal.

I have tried all variations spelling Aley, even just searching for James A. or even Aley Shand without the James altogether. Still no luck. (Incidentally, my older brother is called Alasdair!)

I don't have a Matilda Harriet Shand on my tree, or Henry Cox Shand

You did better than me deciphering the marriage record, I complained to the record office that the copy they sent me was unreadable!

Where do I go from here then? It seems I am no further backwards/forwards.

Jo