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    Default Bishop's Transcripts (and other questions)

    Hi Everyone,

    I'm new here, and will post a proper introduction, but here I am researching the White family of Gosport, Hampshire. I am trying to unravel the mystery of what happened to the family after the father and one son moved to South Africa in 1820. I am currently going through the registers to find all the children (I need to reach 12 if it's the family I think it is!). I have found discrepancies in the dates on Family Search and so have been paging through the Bishop's Transcript and church register at the local LDS Family History library.

    I though that Bishop's Transcripts were simply duplicate registers, but I've come to the conclusion that the Bishop's Transcript here is somehow sorted by birth date, not baptism date. Is this usual?

    Laying out all the dates against each other led me to another conclusion: I think one child was baptised twice. First assumption was that the child died, and the name was re-used, but when I write down all the dates, I don't think so (although some dates are a little off, I think these are most likely transcription errors). Why might a child be baptised twice?

    Here are the dates by name of person. BT for Bishop's Transcript, CR for Church Register. If a separate birth date was listed I've indicated it as "b". I've indicated where two children are entered in the register on the same date.

    Elizabeth
    BT 8 May 1801
    CR 29 April 1803 b 7 March 1801 (same entry as Joseph)

    Joseph
    BT 17 April 1803 (under April the dates run between 6 and 29, followed by a 17 - this one - and a 26)
    BT 16 November 1804 b 17 March 1803 (same entry as John, in a section marked Public Baptisms)
    CR 29 April 1803 (same entry as Elizabeth, no birth date for Joseph)
    CR 16 November 1804 b 17 March 1803 (same entry as John)

    John
    BT 16 November 1804 b 18 October 1804 (same entry as Joseph)
    CR 16 November 1804 b 18 October 1804 (same entry as Joseph)

    So can anyone explain more about the Bishop's Transcripts? And also why a child might be baptised twice? (Unless you think I'm wrong about there being only one Joseph...?)

    Thanks in advance!

    Nikki

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    Knowledgeable and helpful stepives's Avatar
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    Mistakes are made in transcriptions, and could have been done several times, for any reason. Children baptised on same day. Dates of birth could be mixed up.

    Think of any reason for errors and mistakes, and you're more than likely right.

    Have you checked for burials of Children.

    Steve.
    Too many bones, too much sorrow, but until I am dead, there's always tomorrow.

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    Apart from a child dying and another then receiving the same name, the other way an infant might appear
    twice is if the babe was born weak and not be expected to live and it was baptized 'Privately', i.e. at the home
    by the Minister, then surviving, was 'Received into the Church' which was a Public Baptism. Often the
    former was marked 'Priv', that was not done here. It is likely that the Clerk kept a private book and entered
    the details for the Transcript to be sent to the Bishop from there.
    I can give you a list of the children of Richard & Susannah from the Hampshire Genealogical Society's CD
    Transcripts if you like?

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    Hi Steve,

    Sorry for the delay in replying. Yes, I have checked for the burial of a Joseph in between the first and second Joseph. I didn't find one, but on the other hand, if I'm finding errors that could be another one! I'll double check, but am leaning towards there only being one Joseph.

    Nikki

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    Quote Originally Posted by burt View Post
    Apart from a child dying and another then receiving the same name, the other way an infant might appear
    twice is if the babe was born weak and not be expected to live and it was baptized 'Privately', i.e. at the home
    by the Minister, then surviving, was 'Received into the Church' which was a Public Baptism. Often the
    former was marked 'Priv', that was not done here. It is likely that the Clerk kept a private book and entered
    the details for the Transcript to be sent to the Bishop from there.
    I can give you a list of the children of Richard & Susannah from the Hampshire Genealogical Society's CD
    Transcripts if you like?
    I think your explanation of private and public baptisms makes sense here. As I said in my reply to Steve, I don't see a burial for Joseph.

    I'd really appreciate a list of the children - thank you. I haven't been able to find a marriage for the couple in the Gosport records I have seen either - might that be included on the CD. There are a number of people who have worked on this family tree and I have seen suggestions of Cox for Susannah's maiden name. I have worked with another researcher (and with Sue Mackay's help) to rule out Cox based on signatures on letter and the marriage document, but have no evidence of any other alternative name.

    Thanks for the help,

    Nikki

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    Before you can get accurate answers we really need to know whether you were looking at "original" Registers & Bishop's Transcripts (I.E. Digital images) or whether you were looking at later transcripts.

    Many transcription groups re-arranged the records into date order rather than as the appear in the actual register.

    Both sets of records (Registers & BTs) should be listed according to the date of baptism as that is what was important to the Church even though the date of birth was legally required many (most) clerics ignored the requirement.

    From 1598 every incumbent of the Church of England was supposed send a copy of new entries in his parish register to his bishop every year. This is still a requirement but most stopped with the beginning of civil registration in 1837.

    Quote Originally Posted by nd_SAOZ View Post
    Elizabeth
    BT 8 May 1801
    CR 29 April 1803 b 7 March 1801 (same entry as Joseph)
    Is the BT entry listed within the other 1801 entries or is it in with 1803 entries?
    If the latter I would suggest the clerk made an error and recorded the birth date rather than baptism date.

    Quote Originally Posted by nd_SAOZ View Post
    Joseph
    BT 17 April 1803 (under April the dates run between 6 and 29, followed by a 17 - this one - and a 26)
    Possible transcription error with missing entries added when discovered.

    Quote Originally Posted by nd_SAOZ View Post
    BT 16 November 1804 b 17 March 1803 (same entry as John, in a section marked Public Baptisms)
    As the section is marked public baptisms I am led to think this is from a transcription rather than an original entry.
    All baptism in the Church of England (CofE) are public baptisms. If a baby is in danger of dying before being he/she could receive a private baptism by any member of the CofE, when they recover the are supposed to be brought to the church to be received into the church (a public service which some refer to as a baptism but as the church only baptise people once he/she would not normally be baptised again (there are a few exceptions where conditional baptisms are used).

    Quote Originally Posted by nd_SAOZ View Post
    CR 29 April 1803 (same entry as Elizabeth, no birth date for Joseph)
    CR 16 November 1804 b 17 March 1803 (same entry as John)

    John
    BT 16 November 1804 b 18 October 1804 (same entry as Joseph)
    CR 16 November 1804 b 18 October 1804 (same entry as Joseph)
    Cheers
    Guy
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    Super Moderator Sue Mackay's Avatar
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    Hi Nikki. Glad you took my advice and joined B-G. I told you they were a helpful lot!
    Sue Mackay
    Insanity is hereditary - you get it from your kids

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