S LYDIA CLARKE/HOWELL THOMAS/ERNEST G JONES

[gilian rowland]

Thanks ALMA
I am now copying and pasting the info into some sort of order to try to clear my head!

I have found the marriage of Aunt Lizzie's parents ie Elizabeth Rachel Jones - Q1 1888 Jones William to Ellen STONE
and STONE surname matches the 1901 census with two STONE sisters in law.


RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN HOWELL THOMAS AND AUNT LIZZIE
Again and apologies, another plea for help in figuring this out as I have a lot of info I would like to put on my tree but can't until I sort this.

David Thomas married Mary Ann nee THOMAS son HOWELL THOMAS

AUNT MRS LIZZIE THOMAS -= Elizabeth Rachel Jones (Parents William Jones and Ellen Stone)
married Alfred L THOMAS - PARENTS James Elias THOMAS and Sarah A Davies

NB Post No.37 states that the connection is NOT that she married a brother of Howell's father.
" However, if you look at Alfred's parents in post #19, you'll realise why David and Alfred are not brothers."

(19 - 1901, RG13; Piece: 5054; Folio: 23; Page: 37
James E Thomas 42
Sarah A Thomas 42

Thanks
Jill

[gilian rowland]

As I am unable to progress this matter ie find the relationship between "Aunt Lizzie" ie Elizabeth Rachel Jones and
Alfred L Thomas I am trying to find info from Canada/ I have just been sent the following info for Alfred's headstone Woodlawn Cemetery in Welland so would welcome any input of the welsh words - I haven't as yet tried google search. With thanks Jill

"Here is the actual transcription information-

SECTION D, ROW 13 (note the transcription says Row 13 whereas Canadian headstones says Row 12 - I would go with transcription being the more accurate one.)

1) THOMAS / [cherub statue] In loving / memory of / Elizabeth / wife of / Alfred / Thomas / born / May 9, 1888 / died / May 2, 1942 / hedd / perffaith / hedd / ar fynwes duw (side) In loving / memory of / Alfred / beloved / husband of / Elizabeth / Thomas / born / May 28, 1885 / died / Aug 28, 1948 / hedd / perffaith (side) Lucy Thomas / born & died / Feb 14, 1934."

[gilian rowland]

IN LOVING
MEMORY OF
ALFRED


Better info from the actual headstone - believe the two welsh words mean "perfect peace"??


BELOVED
HUSBAND OF
ELIZABETH
THOMAS
BORN
May 28, 1885
DIED
Aug. 28, 1948
HEDD
PERFFAITH

[Section D - Row 12 - This is the north side of the 4 sided Thomas monument.

[gilian rowland]

MODERATOR

Further to my post No. 41 re working out the relationship between Aunt Lizzie ie Elizabeth Rachel Thomas nee
Jones and Howell Thomas, would it help if this posting was moved to Brickwalls?

I would like to know if the answer is staring me in the face which defeats me or whether it is more complicated.
I am likely to lose the plot even more since I am now receiving info from Canada as well and so want to
add to my Anc tree but can't until this is solved.

ALMA

You mentioned in an earlier posting that possibly Elizabeth's husband Alfred Thomas' parents and some
of his family went to Canada - I can confirm indeed they did! I have been sent info from a cemetery there
and now a register of Burials so found them on there - so must be lots of family over there!

Another new found relative from another side of the family who is in Canada emailed just now that:

" Cwmavon used to have many copper smelters, I wonder if Welland needed the same skilled people? "

I quickly googled Welland and see that in fact there was heavy industry there and steel companies were set up
in the 1920s."

with thanks
Jill

[gilian rowland]

Thanks for moving this to the Brickwall site. Hope this wall comes tumbling down soon!
Jill

[gilian rowland]

It occurred to me rather late in the day, or in this case, late at night (!) that if one is a member of Anc
(I'm only a guest) that there must be a way of searching for a name to see if someone has a tree?
If so is anyone able to find "Aunt Lizzie" ie Elizabeth Rachel Jones and her husband Alfred L Thomas
that way?

I know that hints come up showing how many trees there are, which I can't access, and in this case since
I am unable to discover how she is Howell's Aunt, I am unable to add the info I have on them to my tree.
As already posted they left Wales and settled in Welland, Canada in about 1920. She died 1942 and husband Alfred 1948. I have already posted her Obituary - Post No. 31. I am sure that in view of the number of children born both in Wales
and Welland, that there must be info already on Anc.

RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN HOWELL THOMAS AND AUNT LIZZIE
Again and apologies, another plea for help in figuring this out as I have a lot of info I would like to put on my tree but can't until I sort this.

David Thomas married Mary Ann nee THOMAS son HOWELL THOMAS

AUNT MRS LIZZIE THOMAS -= Elizabeth Rachel Jones (Parents William Jones and Ellen Stone)
married Alfred L THOMAS - PARENTS James Elias THOMAS and Sarah A Davies

NB Post No.37 states that the connection is NOT that she married a brother of Howell's father.
" However, if you look at Alfred's parents in post #19, you'll realise why David and Alfred are not brothers."

(19 - 1901, RG13; Piece: 5054; Folio: 23; Page: 37
James E Thomas 42
Sarah A Thomas 42


Post No (19)
1901 census 24, Miners Row, Michaelston, Cwmavon. RG13; Piece: 5054; Folio: 74; Page: 12
All born Cwmavon
William Jones 35
Ellen Jones 32
Elizabeth Jones 13 ******** ie born c1888 Cwmavon ie Reg Neath
Thomas Jones 11
Maggie Jones 8
John Jones 6
Martha Jones 4
William Jones 2
Rachel Stone 28, sister in law
Elizabeth Stone 25, sister in law


There's only two Alfred Thomas birth registrations 1882 - 1888
*1) Alfred Thomas Sept 1885, Neath 11a 642 (MMN Davies)*
2) Alfred Theodor Thomas Sept 1886, Neath 11a [56]71 (unlikely)

POSTING NO 19

1901, RG13; Piece: 5054; Folio: 23; Page: 37
James E Thomas 42
Sarah A Thomas 42
Margaret Thomas 19
William J Thomas 17
Alfred Thomas 15 **********
Mary Thomas 11
Sarah A Thomas 9
Elizabeth Thomas 7
David J Thomas 4
Lucy Thomas 1


with thanks Jill

[Pam Downes]

Jil,
The problem with some of the trees on Ancestry is that they are not always correct, and you really can't expect anyone to sit and sort out which are correct, which have slightly dodgy information, and which are only 10% correct.
I believe I've already suggested this before, but if you want to add these people to your tree then you need to take out a month's sub to Ancestry so you can access all the trees and records that you need. Twenty quid will get you worldwide access, just in case you find any Canadian records.
You might find extra information about other people in other branches of your tree, too.

Pam

[gilian rowland]

Thanks PAM

In haste

" and you really can't expect anyone to sit and sort out which are correct, which have slightly dodgy information, and which are only 10% correct."

Sorry I obviously didn't explain myself very well - I certainly don't expect others to go through info on other trees for these
families if there are any. I merely meant that if one types in the names of the key people in this mystery then I wondered if any trees come up. I know from Hints that I can see how many trees there are for someone which I can't access so thought perhaps
a quick way to find out if anyone else is researching these families is to, as I say, check against their names. That's all.
with thanks
Jill

[almach]

Jill, I really do think Pam's suggestion of taking a months subscription with Ancestry would benefit you. As you will realise the surnames of the relationships you are seeking are so common in Wales. Also consider children then (even when I was a girl) often addressed their parents friends as aunt, so it is possible there is no family relationship, other than family friends, or it could be a distant family relationship. Investing £10 may be money well spent.

[Lesley Robertson]

Jill, there's another reason to invest 10 quid and spend some quality time with Ancestry (other databases are available) which the others seem too nice to mention. You seem to be putting a LOT of faith in what you are being told by people you can't possibly know, both here and (as you keep saying) from other places.

Now, I have a lot of faith in my fellow Mods and our experienced members, but I would still want to check what they were telling me. I freely admit to being a control freak, but all sorts of errors can creep in, but only be spotted by someone who knows the family, and I carefully check all hints, clues or other info people supply me with (even my brother). Even something as trivial as a change in spelling from Abram to Abraham can be critical and people, however well-meaning can make mistakes. I once wasted a year's research because I assumed that with 3 forenames matching, the info someone gave me about a man I was looking for must be correct. It even gave me a famous ancestor. As it turned out, there were two cousins named for the same grandfather at about the same time.... I needed the other one and my informant hadn't realized there were 2.

I am not going to tell you what you should do, just what I would do right now. I'd print off the pages and pages of help you have had here and wherever else people have been helping you, I'd take a deep breath and then I would check the lot on Ancestry, FMP, Scotlands People and anywhere else I could find, before I collected anymore.