I can't find a death

[AudreyF]

I have Martha Brunning marrying Sidney Johnson in January 1852 and the certificate says Martha was Martha Hall a widow. The birth certificate for a child from the marriage gives the mother's name as Martha Johnson, late Hall, formerly Brunning.

So, Martha Brunning married Mr. Hall who died and then she married Mr. Johnson. I have found a likely marriage of Martha Brunning to Robert Hall in Q4 1849 in Pontypool, Monmouthshire and am about to order this marriage certificate.

In the 1851 census Martha Hall is a widow of 19. I'm sure this is the right woman because other things fit. So, Robert Hall died sometime between Q4 1849 and early 1851. I can't find a likely death. The only one on the GRO Death Indexes is Q4 1849 in Pontypool, Monmouthshire but gives an age as 0 years. This could be a child of the Brunning Hall marriage? Doesn't help me find the father though.

Any suggestions?

[Lesley Robertson]

You can't rule out Robert's death happening somewhere else. He could have been working away from home, or travelling for another reason. You should hopefully get a clue regarding his occupation from the marriage cert.

Have Pontypool burials been recorded? It might be worth checking them - the relevant FHS might be able to help.

[AudreyF]

Yes, he could have been/gone anywhere. Martha was born and raised in Suffolk and I haven't yet worked out what took her to Pontypool. Hopefully, the marriage certificate will give some more clues as to Robert's age and occupation.

I've looked for the birth of the Robert Hall who died aged 0 years old in Pontypool but nothing has come up with mother's maiden name of Brunning. I can tell it is going to be one of those tricky stories.

I'll see if I can find the Pontypool FHS.

[Lesley Robertson]

It might be a county FHS.
Try GENUKI.org. That's where I always start my searches.

[helachau]

Can you confirm the GRO Dec Qtr 1849, Robert Hall, age 0, Pontypool death? Can you give Volume No. and Page No.?
I can find a GRO 1852 birth for a Robert Hall, Sep Qtr 1852, Pontypool (mother's maiden name James) and a GRO Robert Hall, age 0, Dec Qtr 1852, Pontypool, death.

[Pam Downes]

Yes, he could have been/gone anywhere. Martha was born and raised in Suffolk and I haven't yet worked out what took her to Pontypool. Hopefully, the marriage certificate will give some more clues as to Robert's age and occupation.

I've looked for the birth of the Robert Hall who died aged 0 years old in Pontypool but nothing has come up with mother's maiden name of Brunning. I can tell it is going to be one of those tricky stories.

I'll see if I can find the Pontypool FHS.

Not all births were registered prior to 1874.

And I think you might be confusing people a little as you've omitted some basic (helpful?) facts.

Martha Hall and Sidney Johnson married in Mutford registration district which is partly in Norfolk and partly in Suffolk, and therefore the opposite side of the country to Pontypool (and Pontypool registration district). There is a lot of difference between a town and a registration district even if they have the same name which is why I always say 'registration district' if that's what I'm referring to when quoting BMD certificate details.
Pontypool registration district
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/pontypool.html
Mutford registration district.
https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/mutford.html

In 1851, the Martha Hall is living in Halesworth, Blything, Suffolk, with her mother and grandmother. HO107.1803 folio 555 page 12.

Pam

[helachau]

The 1849 marriage certificate (Hall/Branning - as transcribed) can be viewed online at FindMyPast.

[AudreyF]

The 1849 marriage of Robert Hall to Martha Brunning says he is 21 and a schoolmaster.

I've got Martha Hall, widow, living in Halesworth with her mother and grandmother - thank you. I don't know how/why she got to Pontypool to marry but she obviously returned to her Suffolk roots when she was widowed.

The Robert Hall death was found on Ancestry and the GRO website confirms it as 0 years old. The reference is Q4 1852 in Pontypool 11a 75. I've looked through the births from 1849 (marriage) to 1852 (re-marriage) and can't see any with mother's maiden name of Brunning on GRO. Their search/ordering service is down at the moment so I can't go back and double-check.

[helachau]

The initial post (#1) has Martha "... a widow ..." but the 1851 Halesworth Census has her "unmarried"?

[AudreyF]

Martha is noted as a widow on her later marriage to Sidney Johnson. I agree the 1851 census seems to record her as unmarried but the 'U' for unmarried and 'W' for widow are often unclear and it could just be enumerator error - wouldn't be the first!