Hi there, i'm new to the forum so please excuse any mistakes.
Me and my grandfather have been trying to smash through the brick wall we have encountered for a solid year now to no avail so i was wandering if any one could help us?
We are trying to uncover the story of my fourth great grandfather Patrick Sullivan who at the moment, is a complete mystery. The only info i have on Patrick is whats on his son John Sullivan's marriage certificate in 1860.
John Sullivan born circa 1840-1 married Catherine Lyons born circa 1841-2 in 1860 in Merthyr Tydfil Wales. Just to point out Catherine's father Thomas Lyons is also causing the same problem as he to was deceased at the time and we cannot find him anywhere either.
On this certificate it states Patrick Sullivan was a cordwainer and was deceased at the time of the marriage. We have scoured census records in both Wales and Ireland and we just cant find him anywhere.
we are both stumped and we don't know what we can do to try and find him.
Just in case anyone has a look for us, John Sullivan changes his mind on census records as to where he is from, one minuet he was born in Ireland the next in wales so i assume he was born in Ireland as it seems odd to put down the unfavourable country at the time if he was indeed Welsh. So our assumption is John was born in Ireland and possibly Patrick died over there?
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
Kind regards Lew.
Results 1 to 10 of 31
Thread: Help!!!! Cordwainer?
-
09-06-2018, 12:19 PM #1
- Join Date
- Jun 2018
- Location
- Birmingham
- Posts
- 17
Help!!!! Cordwainer?
-
09-06-2018, 12:37 PM #2
Welcome to the British Genealogy Forum.
It sounds as though you have the wedding certificate for John & Catherine, so you're fairly sure of their ages and the fathers' namesl names. Do you have them in the 1851 census? With the bride and groom born at the start of the 1940s, I'd be looking for parental marriages (hoping like mad that they married after 1837 when marriage certs began. If you have them in the 1851 (or even 1841), you have the maternal forenames, which will help to narrow down the numbers of grooms to look at.
I don't know what you mean by "unfavourable country", but if he had a gang of siblings, all born in one country, he might have assumed that he was born there as well... People often preferred to lie in the face of officialdom rather than admit that they didn't know something...
-
09-06-2018, 12:38 PM #3
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
- Location
- NORTHAMPTONSHIRE, ENGLAND
- Posts
- 3,216
could this be your man....
Name: John Sullivan
Baptism Age: 0
Event Type: Baptism
Birth Date: 1840
Baptism Date: 28 May 1840
Baptism Place: Gortnahoe, Tipperary, Ireland
Parish Variants: Glengoole, Gurtnahoe and Glengoole
Diocese: Cashel and Emly
Father: Patrick Sullivan
Mother: Anne Morris
-
09-06-2018, 12:45 PM #4
- Join Date
- Jun 2018
- Location
- Birmingham
- Posts
- 17
Hi there thanks for the reply, by unfavourable country i mean at the the time as i'm sure you are fully aware the Irish were treated worse than most other races so if John was welsh why would he lie and put the 'unfavourable' race of Irish if that makes any sense unless he was identifying with where his father was born.
Unfortunately i don't have them on the 1851 or 41 census and thus, do not know if he had any siblings and this is where our problem begins. Me and my grandfather cannot find any of them anywhere, we cannot find any families headed by a Patrick that fits the information we have.
we are a sure as we can be that the wedding certificate is correct as there was only two other johns and catherines married in the area but on the other certificate Catherine's age was well out for the census records we had for her 1870-1901.
Thanks for the reply,
Lew.
-
09-06-2018, 12:47 PM #5
- Join Date
- Jun 2018
- Location
- Birmingham
- Posts
- 17
Hi there, there are so many records for a John born to a Patrick in southern Ireland that its almost impossible for me to see how any of them can be concluded as correct , as i have no information other than whats on the wedding certificate and snippets of later census records but they don't help a great deal.
thanks for the reply.
Lew
-
09-06-2018, 12:48 PM #6
- Join Date
- Jan 2008
- Location
- NORTHAMPTONSHIRE, ENGLAND
- Posts
- 3,216
Is this them in 1891 Census with children in Mountain Ash, Merthyr. Wales
Name Age
John Sullivan 50
Catherine Sullivan 50
Thomas Sullivan 20
Jeremiah Sullivan 19
Edward Sullivan 11
Catherine Sullivan 9
James Davies 23 Lodger
-
09-06-2018, 12:49 PM #7
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
- Location
- wales
- Posts
- 3,437
Just to confirm
1861 Census Ref RG09 4050 73 61
Is this your John Sullivan - at 2 Sheperds Row, Merthyr Tydfil? Household includes a 12 year old Daniel Sullivan, brother, born Ireland."dyfal donc a dyr y garreg"
-
09-06-2018, 12:49 PM #8
- Join Date
- Jun 2018
- Location
- Birmingham
- Posts
- 17
Hi Sandy, yes thats them Napier street Mountain ash.
-
09-06-2018, 12:50 PM #9
- Join Date
- Aug 2009
- Location
- wales
- Posts
- 3,437
A Denis Sullivan's birth was registered March Qtr, 1861, Merthyr Tydfil - mother Lyons.
"dyfal donc a dyr y garreg"
-
09-06-2018, 12:51 PM #10
- Join Date
- Jun 2018
- Location
- Birmingham
- Posts
- 17
Last edited by lewissullivan; 09-06-2018 at 1:03 PM. Reason: Extra Information
Tags for this Thread
Helping you trace your British Family History & British Genealogy.
All times are GMT. The time now is 9:34 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5
Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.
Bookmarks