Sevastopol Battle

[marshland]

I have checked in Spinks British Battles and Medals, which is one of the definitive medal books, to make sure that my comments are valid. Some of the medals were sent direct to the army in situ not engraved with instructions to engrave them locally. Many Battalions then had them hand engraved which normally included Regiment and often Battalion. ie Regimentally Impressed. A few were presented with no engraving at all. The Govt appointed Hunt and Bushell as Official engravers and men were able to send their medals there for engraving if they wished. Some Battalions collected the medals up and sent them back for engraving at Hunt and Bushell but some men refused as they didn't trust the Govt to get their original medals back to them. Later medals were engraved by the Govt before being awarded. In most cases the medal will include the Regiment and some the Battalion which should help Des. A second help would be the clasp as that would indicate which of the battles, this James Pernell, fought in and while it may not identify him it may help eliminate other candidates and elimination is a key part of family history research.

[Des1971]

Thanks Peter
I'm relatively sure that some of the births you've noted aren't his children, although he DID go on to become a butcher after his wife died.
Yes, his wife was Catherine Fuell. They immigrated to NZ aboard the Chile in 1860, London to Dunedin. There was only one child with them: James and his wife Catherine, and his son James Charles (who was born 1853), plus Catherine's brother Frederick Fuell.
Although, maybe you're right and the other three children you've noted died? It's always a possibility.
In NZ they went on to have Sarah Ann (1861), John (1863), William Phillip (1865) Charlotte Emma (my grandmother - 1866), Sophia (1869), Frederick (1870) and Thomas Henry (1873) - all of these children went on to marry - except Thomas who died at the age of 26 after falling off a horse and his coat becoming entangled by a passing train.
If your suggestion is correct, poor Catherine had a total of 11 children, instead of 8 as I had thought.
I will need to look into that further, as I have not yet sought all the names of his nieces and nephews in England - James came from quite a large family himself.
What I do know for sure is that he absolutely definitely fought in Sevastapol as I have held his medal in my hand, it is engraved with his name and factually known to come from his personal belongings.
His 1851 census (England) had him as a labourer. When he came to NZ he lived on the goldfields as a farmer. In 1890 Catherine died, so he moved to Kaitangata and opened a very successful butcher's shop which stayed in the family for 4 generations. James died in 1901.
Mystery!

[Des1971]

Oh, oh, oh, - I've just found more something:
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interacti...69/edit/record

UK, Military Campaign Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1949 for James Pennell
Asia > Crimean War 1854-1855 > Other Regiments, Units and Staff > Medical Corps, Turkish, Sardinian Contingent Land Transport Corps, Ordanance Corps and Chaplains
It says he was Reg No 129, and medal awarded within the Land Transport Corps. Doesn't really say anything else thou.

[Peter Goodey]

Oh, oh, oh, - I've just found more something:

As I previously advised in message #8.

[Des1971]

Oops - sorry. I had clicked on my email link to see your response and in doing so missed quite a few messages. Thank you.
At least it's nice to know - I'm fairly sure it is him and also pretty sure the other three births you mentioned are possibly not his children - though I'm going to look into this further.
Thank you for following my post - I really didn't expect such a fantastic load of responses and really appreciate it.
Des

[Peter Goodey]

Well, I don't agree. The GRO index and the baptism registers indicate pretty conclusively to my mind that Charles William born 11 Jan 1855 was the brother of James Charles born 1853. I can't see this being consistent with the father being in the Crimea.

In my opinion the story simply doesn't hang together.

[Ladkyis]

Here's a thought to ponder. I have an example from the census where a person was on the list of people at a specific address but was actually in the Royal Navy and on a ship on the high seas.
His mother had included him because he was her son - Could his parents have simply listed all the children that should be there, rather than those that were actually in the house?

[Des1971]

Always a possibility, although the battle of Sevastopol was 1854-1855 - so it would be ok to assume he was at home. I suspect it's just a case of this website doesn't have his records unfortunately.

[Des1971]

Hmmm... might have to agree to disagree on this one.
The son, Frederick [granddad], showed my dad [Fred's grandson] the medals and said this was his dad's. He also explained that at the same time, although they were married, Catherine [James's wife] served very close to her husband as a nurse. Catherine had told Fred that she met Florence Nightingale during her nursing and we had made the incorrect assumption that Catherine was one of Florence's nurses. Catherine was a nurse, just not with Flo.
I can't explain the birth you are talking about, although I will look into it further, but I simply know that this medal belonged to my 2nd gt-grandfather James Charles Pennell.
Maybe, just perhaps, if Charles William was a son - well I'll leave your imagination to that one. Neither you or I were at the battles, so we can only guess.
At any rate, only one child was still alive in 1860.

[christanel]

Baptisms
James Charles Pennell
Baptism Date: 27 Feb 1853 St John Islington
Baptism Place Holloway, Islington, England
Father James Charles Pennell Occupation - Butcher
Mother catherine Pennell
Address Hornsey? Rd

Baptism
Charles William Pennell
Baptism Date: 5 Aug 1855
Baptism Place: Hornsey St Mary, Haringey
Father James Charles Pennell Occupation Butcher
Mother Catherine Pennell
Address - Maynard St.

Baptism
Charles Harry Pennell
Baptism Date: 3 Jul 1859
Baptism Place: St Katherine Coleman, City of London
Father James Charles Pennell Occupation - Carman
Mother Catherine Pennell
Address Northern Ceiland? Mews

I can't see a baptism for Alice Kate

On the GRO index
Births
James Charles Pennell mmn FUELL
GRO Reference: 1853 March 1/4 Quarter in Islington registration district Vol 1B page 221
Charles William Pennell mmn FUELL
GRO Reference: 1855 March 1/4 Islington registration district Vol 1B Page 253
Alice Kate Pennell mmn FUELL
GRO Reference: 1857 Sept 1/4 in City of London reg dist Vol 1C Page 77
Charles Harry Pennell mmn FEULL (note spelling)
GRO Reference: 1859 June 1/4 in City of London Vol 1C Page 80

Deaths
Charles William Pennell age 1
GRO Reference: 1856 March 1/4 EDMONTON Vol 3A Page 75
Alice Kate Pennell age 0 years
GRO Reference: 1857 Dec 1/4 City of london Vol 1C Page 77

The only death I can see for a Charles which may be Charles Harry born 1859 is this one
Charles Pennell age 1
GRO Reference: 1861 June 1/4 Marylebone Vol 1A Page 338
This being James and Catherine's third son would depend on when in 1861 they emigrated.

Christina