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  1. #11
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    Eve
    Looking at all the current data you have posted it seems to me that you already know more about the Lazarus and associated lines than probably the majority of researchers. I know that there are several Lazarus family tree resources held at the Jewish Genealogical Society of Great Britain -(for other researchers who want to see if there are family trees/data on their lines they should look at the JGSB index of family trees on the main title data base)- have you accessed these yourself or asked another researcher? Similarly, have you or someone you know accessed the Hymason and Colyer Fergusson Anglo Jewish Collections for Lazarus and associated families?

    I know from my own research that the Hyamson and Colyer Fergusson collections vary in terms of data and its quality and the records reflect mostly 'known' Anglo Jewish families. For example, my Crawcour and Jacobs lines are recorded with family trees but not my Hart- I visited the Society of Genealogists in London on several occasions but have not been to the JGSGB.

    Phillip

  2. #12
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    A quick question regarding Eleazer Lazarus b circa 1775 and sentenced to 14 years transportation in 1815 Derby Assizes- if he is the father of Isaac Lazarus aka John Lizars b 1811 what was he doing in Derby or locality and what was his trade?
    I have seen the marriage record for John Lizar 1857 which gives his father as Lewis Lizar merchant- JewishGen data base UK
    Phillip

  3. #13
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    Default Eleazer LAZARUS

    Quote Originally Posted by phillip View Post
    A quick question regarding Eleazer Lazarus b circa 1775 and sentenced to 14 years transportation in 1815 Derby Assizes- if he is the father of Isaac Lazarus aka John Lizars b 1811 what was he doing in Derby or locality and what was his trade?
    I have seen the marriage record for John Lizar 1857 which gives his father as Lewis Lizar merchant- JewishGen data base UK
    Phillip
    Good question, Phillip, as this is where the hypothesis is weakest.
    I had several Eleazer LAZARUSes who I was able to narrow down to being a single individual. To the best of understanding, he was the son of Yespe/Josepha of Worms and had a sister Betsy, who married Elias JACOBS (synagoguescribe entries). He was a merchant of India muslin in Chiswell Street and a partner of Samuel COHEN until their partnership was dissolved in 1815, shortly before (an) Eleazer Lazarus was charged with forging a banknote. Eleazer Lazarus late of Chiswell Street was buried in the Brady Street Cemetery in 1825. (Cemeteryscribes). According to a census record, a daughter Julia was born in Chiswell Street. (Her year of birth varies from 1826 to 1831, knocking years off her age with each census, but if we take the earliest I've got for her, 1861, then she could easily have been conceived shortly before Eleazer's death in 1825. I'd like to find earlier census info for her to more exactly fix her age.)
    Unfortunately for my theory, the record for Eleazer-the-convict gives his occupation as glass cutter, but at least he seems to have been one in London. Mistake? Business failed and he got temporary work elsewhere (there were Lazarus glass cutters in London then)? What he might have been doing in Darby, I don't know. But I'm pretty sure I searched for other Eleazer Lazaruses of the right age/period/occupation and found none (as always, I realize absence of evidence doesn't mean evidence of absence). Eleazer's wife Elizabeth (or at least, an Elizabeth Lazarus) had an India Muslin warehouse in Chiswell street in 1829, so she seems to have carried on the business after Eleazer's death.

  4. #14
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    Re dates of children's births, what I've been able to fit together so far from various census records are:
    unnamed child, buried 1813 (synagoguescribes)
    c.1810 Esther, married Phillip Phillips
    c.1815 Joseph, m Caroline Davis of Exeter; was Deputy for Exeter (EHC records)
    c.1821 Benajamin, m. Priscilla Davis, sister of Caroline
    c.1821 Rebecca, m. Samuel Leveston, MD in Glasgow
    c.1822 Sarah m. Moses Meyers
    c.1825 Adelaide
    c.1826 Rachel
    c.1826/31/35 Julia

    You can see how Eleazer-the-convict's absence is neatly bracketed by births between Joseph and his younger siblings. Of course, there could have been other kids born between those two. Some of the women only appear with their mother after they were widowed, so who knows what other siblings there might have been.

    My speculation about Isaac Lazarus/John Lizars being part of this family is still very much speculation. It is based on a number of pieces of circumstantial evidence with nothing so far fully discounting it. On the other hand, he may well be related to the Birmingham women.

  5. #15
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    Eve
    Another question- I noted that Eleazer Lazarus the transported convict was given a Conditional Pardon 31 Jan 1820. It's my understanding that convicts granted a Conditional Pardon .."could not return to England or Ireland. Original copies of the pardon were sent to England and duplicates remained in Australia".

    Did Eleazer the convict receive a later full pardon, if not, then there are 2 possible scenarios-1 Eleazer returned to England and took a chance on capture, imprisonment and possible death if all he had was a Conditional Pardon 2 He had a full pardon so could return to England.

    I am not convinced that Eleazer the convict and Eleazer the co-partner in the cloth trade are one in in the same.
    My Jacobs/Litzen were in the glass trade and I researched their work in some detail- a glass cutter could be an itinerant trader taking different sizes of glass on back packs or on small handcarts and replacing broken glass; the term could also mean an engraver of glass which was a skilled trade usually through apprenticeship.

    Trying to help if I can narrowing down your data.

    Phillip

  6. #16
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    Eve
    There are 2 records which show Eleazer still in NSW in 1822- NSW and Tasmania Australia Convict Muster 1822 - he is recorded as a licensed victualler Sydney; NSW Census and Population Books- Eleazer Lazarus (C) Ship Fanny 14 years (Parramatta)
    I take the initial letter C to mean Conditional because other convicts have similar or Ticket of Leave recorded.

    Can I suggest that you check these records to confirm that this is the same Eleazer and if confirmed then he did not return to UK unless there was a full pardon and if so, when was it granted.
    Phillip

    Phillip

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    [QUOTE=phillip;654951]Eve
    <There are 2 records which show Eleazer still in NSW in 1822- NSW and Tasmania Australia Convict Muster 1822 - he is recorded as a licensed victualler Sydney; NSW Census and Population Books- Eleazer Lazarus (C) Ship Fanny 14 years (Parramatta)
    I take the initial letter C to mean Conditional because other convicts have similar or Ticket of Leave recorded>

    Phillip, thanks very much. It's so helpful to have another set of eyes look at one's research! Ancestry lists Eleazer Lazarus's pardon as Absolute. I don't know how that is determined because the record shown doesn't seem to indicate type of pardon; I assume it's taken from a record of Absolute Pardons:
    Name: Eleazar Lazarus
    Origin Place: London, England
    Trial Location: Derby, Derbyshire, England
    Conviction Date: 22 Mar 1815
    Arrival Year: 1816
    Pardon Date: 31 Jan 1820
    Vessel Name: Fanny
    Record Type: Absolute

    Where have you found " 2 records which show Eleazer still in NSW in 1822- NSW and Tasmania Australia Convict Muster 1822 - he is recorded as a licensed victualler Sydney; NSW Census and Population Books- Eleazer Lazarus (C) Ship Fanny 14 years (Parramatta)"? Is this on Ancestry? Sometimes my searches don't even turn up what I have already found.

    Eve

  8. #18
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    Eve- I have re-checked the Ancestry Records and looked at the original copies they are under the NSW Convict records and NSW Census and Population books data bases. I still read CP and C and the date for CP or Conditional Pardon is 31 Jan 1820.My concern with Ancestry.Co records is that the summary is often incorrect which is why I read the original records and re-check with the summary.
    I have also seen your various amendments to the data on Julia Lazarus.

    Will take another look and ask my wife to check I am right!

    Phillip

  9. #19
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    Eve
    Have re-checked Ancestry.Co records but this time cross referenced with the NSW State Archives Convict Index. If you look at the site you will see a range of record sections for each convict including all the different types of pardon, marriage, death etc...
    See the record for Eleazer Lazarus Vessel Fanny Year 1816 and note Conditional Pardon 31 Jan 1820 Ref 4/4430 Reel 774 Page 141

    If you type in Absolute Pardon or others you will get the above which is a Conditional Pardon hence Eleazar remaining in NSW and appearing in the 1822 muster.

    Looks to me as if Ancestry.Co have put in Absolute incorrectly but please check the NSW record site just to confirm.
    Phillip

  10. #20
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    For clarity and to assist other researchers here is further data relating to Eleazer Lazarus referred to in #13 and 14:
    Synagogue Scribes Marriages-GSM 033/6 Bestsy Lazarus 7 Dec 1796 Father Yespe (Yesfe, Jezfe) from Worms =Elias JACOB
    GSM 093/24 Eleazer Lazarus father Yespe ( or Yesfe,Jezfe) from Worms 20 March 1805 = Elizabeth BARNET

    Next, The London Gazette 10 Feb 1815- Dissolving Partnership.. Cohen and Lazarus India Muslin and Calico Warehousemaen at Chiswell Street and Shoreditch.. the debts due and from to the house in Chiswell Street will be received by Eleazer Lazarus

    Note Cemetery Scribes ID 886 Burial and Tombstone... Mr Eleazer Lazarus late of Chiswell Street..." Died 1825 age 47 -1778-1825

    Question- is he the same person in the above entries?
    Important note- See JewishGen UK London Traders
    Eleazer Lazarus linen Draper 5 Chiswell Street Pigot 1828

    Is he one in the same as the above but note the 1828 trade directory date. If so, is his family trading under his name following his death or are there more than 1 Eleazer Lazarus of Chiswell Street for the period circa 1815-1828?

    Phillip

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