A male ancestor born in the mid 18th century married a woman from a nearby but not adjacent parish. Both parishes are named in the parish marriage record. It was clearly important in those days to be identified with a parish for Poor Law purposes as well as giving a very broad address for the bride and bridegroom. Try as I may however I cannot find any record of the man's family or, more precisely, his baptism in contemporary records.
It occurs to me that one or the other parish or indeed another one nearby might in layman's terms be the main parish and the others some kind of chapelry. If so that could mean that the baptism records might be in the main parish rather than the chapelry. The two parishes are now in the same 'benefice' which I understand to mean that they are under the management of a single priest in charge (and of course any curates and local lay church members). However I suspect that the decline in membership of churches has led to the amalgamation of parish management in this way (i.e. it is a modern phenomenon) and that this would not have been the case in the 18th century to such an extent or even at all.
I would appreciate any insights into such matters that posters may have and also whether there is anything online and ideally free that I can look up to see whether the two parishes in question were related that far back.
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Thread: Parishes and benefices
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10-11-2017, 10:39 PM #1
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Parishes and benefices
"People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to their ancestors.” Edmund Burke
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10-11-2017, 11:06 PM #2
Or, one or the other could be lying. Yes, it does happen. Being born 'there', does not mean they were baptised 'there'.
'Of the Parish', does not necessarily mean they are born there, just 'of there', and gained settlement.
Try looking slightly further afield, and slowly expand outwardly, and see if they can be found. There is also a case, the records may have been destroyed, lost, burnt or misplaced. There maybe Bisops Transcripts available, at the Diocese of the Parish involved.
Steve.Too many bones, too much sorrow, but until I am dead, there's always tomorrow.
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10-11-2017, 11:06 PM #3
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If you are back as far as the mid 18th century then there are a number of questions to ask:
1. Have all the parish records from that period survived?
2. Were the families in question members of the parish church, or were they of another denomination?
3. A child might be born at the home of its maternal grandparents, and/or baptised there.
4. There was no mandatory requirement for children to be baptised, which is why you find adults being baptised, or groups of older children.
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11-11-2017, 8:05 AM #4
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It was clearly important in those days to be identified with a parish for Poor Law purposes
is anything online and ideally free that I can look up to see whether the two parishes in question were related that far back.
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11-11-2017, 11:30 AM #5
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The FamilySearch wiki can be useful too - https://www.
familysearch.org/wiki/en/England_Genealogy
It's also worth looking at the relevant county record office's website, as they might have information in the catalogue or elsewhere about parishes and their connections and relationships.
If you wish to give us the names of the parishes concerned, there may be someone with local knowledge who can give a more specific answer.
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11-11-2017, 1:07 PM #6
There are examples in my One Place Study of families returning to a previous parish for a baptism or marriage. Also, folk from a couple of farms at the edge of the parish seem to have mostly used the church in the next parish which was much closer.
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11-11-2017, 2:16 PM #7
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Don't forget to check for a nonconformist baptism.
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11-11-2017, 5:34 PM #8
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Thanks everyone. Steve, in a way I am trying to cover the ground as you suggest but having tried other ways I was trying the ecclesiastical angle. I have written before about these ancestors and have already had a lot of help from members. I know that at the time of the marriage the bride was living and had family in Collyweston, Northants where the wedding took place. So far that has not led me to a firm conclusion as to the ancestry of the groom Edward Vines. I have his death certificate which, provided his given age was correct, points to a birth around around 1767. There were two Edward Vines born in that year in the area. One in Hambleton, Rutland and the other in Apethorpe, Northants. Both are close to Collyweston and Laxton.
The pair went on to have several children in Collyweston before moving at some stage to Bulwick where they both died. Bulwick is about 1km from Laxton and only about 8km from Collyweston. Travelling by crow it is about 5km from Apethorpe which means that my money is on the Apethorpe Edward, but that's hardly proof.
Peter, thank you as always. I thought that mention of the parish of residence in those days might be proof of settlement as well as the other parish where the banns must be published. I had a vague memory that there was something about parishes on UKgen not GenUKI (don't worry I won't bite). Collyweston does not appear on their index but Apethorpe does, collectively with a number of other nearby churches including those in the modern benefice but there is no indication that the Apethorpe and Laxton churches were connected administratively so that theory is broken.
Lesley, it was the fact that I have another ancestor baptised in a nearer church than the one in the parish she apparently lived in that started me off on this line of thought. In that case however the two were also connected via the chapelry route I asked about.
Tony"People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to their ancestors.” Edmund Burke
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11-11-2017, 5:54 PM #9
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I should of course have said "baptised" in the penultimate line of the first paragraph above when I wrote "born"!
"People will not look forward to posterity who never look backward to their ancestors.” Edmund Burke
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