Williams family-Birkenhead

[Hannah90]

Hello.

I've been searching my family history for two years now, and I've managed to find a lot of interesting information on my father's side of the family, however, my mother's side is proving difficult to find any solid info-the Williams family.

I got a bit fed up with looking through the thousands of documents for the surname Williams on ancestry, so I'v been making contact with distant relatives and piecing together any info they remember about the family...so here is what I've found (and also the info I need help on).

My great grandfather: William Henry Williams(1889-1948) born in Birkenhead and grew up on Tollemache, road, and died at Upton mental hospital in Chester. His wife's name was Elizabeth Robinson and they had about 15 children together. He (William) suffered from depression and it was my great Grandmother Elizabeth who kept the family going.

Right...so what I have heard from various members of the family William H Williams had a sister named Tansy who was a nurse. This is where I hit a brickwall: I cannot find a record for the name Tansy Williams on ancestry, so I'm wondering if it could be a nickname? I work in a museum and the archivist (who kindly offered to look for the) struggled to find any info, and could not find a Tansy Williams, and suggests my family have made a mistake.

However, I have three family members who met Tansy, and remember her quite well. One person who remembers her is my Nan (William and Elizabeth's daughter in-law), and my nan said the following 'she (Tansy) was a lovely woman but quite strange, though I was fairly young at the time, and may not have realised she may have been ill. I remember one evening getting a message, and was told to run round to the Williams family house as Tansy had been taken ill...the family came back that night and said Tansy had died...and that was the last I ever heard about her'.

I've also been told that Tansy may have died at Upton Mental hospital.

If anyone could offer any advice on how to proceed with my research, or any suggestions on what the name Tansy could be short for would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you for taking the time to read this.

[christanel]

If you are wanting to move back with William Henry and Elizabeth's parents then the marriage certificate for William H and Elizabeth Robinson would give you their father's names and occupations.
Marriage William Henry Williams and Elizabeth Robinson Registration district Birkenhead Sept 1/4 1909 vol 8a page 964
There are some births first name Tansy on FreeBMD but none with the surname Williams. it may be that she used the name just because she like it better than her given name. One of my aunts was known by us all for 50 years as Olwyn. it was only when she died we discovered her birth name was Rachel.
You need to know William H's parents so you can then use the GRO index to look for female births with the mother's maiden name and this should give you any sisters to William H.
Maybe she wasn't a sister but a sister-in-law?
Do you know the names of any other of William Henry's siblings?

This is The National Archives guide to records for Upton Mental Hospital
which are kept at the Chester Archives

Added: I note that on FreeBMD there are four birth registrations for William Henry Williams Birkenhead registration district in 1889 but only one in Wrexham district in 1888. Either of the two in March 1/4 1889 could be for a birth in late November or Dec of 1888.
Christina

[Megan Roberts]

I have checked the 1891, 1901 and 1911 censuses for Tollemache Road entries and the surname Williams:

1891: the only Williams’ living there were an unmarried brother and sister RG12 Piece 2886 Folio 136 Page 1

1901: I can't see any Williams' living in Tollemache Road

1911: There are 2 households:
Margaret Anne Williams was a servant at No. 32 Tollemache Road - born 1887 in Rhos Llan Denbighshire (household of Donald Dean)

160 Tollemache Road - John Griffith Williams born 1874 Liverpool, married to Martha Eleanor [Williams]

I checked the GRO birth index, but there are unfortunately 4 William Henry Williams born and registered in Birkenhead in 1889:


WILLIAMS, WILLIAM HENRY QUINN
GRO Reference: 1889 M Quarter in BIRKENHEAD Volume 08A Page 454
WILLIAMS, WILLIAM HENRY BENYON
GRO Reference: 1889 M Quarter in BIRKENHEAD Volume 08A Page 511
WILLIAMS, WILLIAM HENRY WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1889 S Quarter in BIRKENHEAD Volume 08A Page 557
WILLIAMS, WILLIAM HENRY BURTON
GRO Reference: 1889 D Quarter in BIRKENHEAD Volume 08A Page 480


On the remote off chance that John Griffith Williams from the 1911 Census is anyway related I check his birth registration entry:
WILLIAMS, JOHN GRIFFITH WILLIAMS
GRO Reference: 1874 M Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 397

As you can see his mother has the same maiden name (Williams) as entry number 3 above.


Do you know where any of them were living in 1939, because then that might let you find him in the 1939 Register which would give you his actual birth date, and then would narrow down the registration, and help you identify the correct one for his birth certificate. Once you get his birth certificate you can (a) start to find him in censuses and (b) using his mother's maiden name look for siblings in the birth indexes.

I am pretty certain that "Tansy" will have been a pet name, but identifying it will be the issue.

[almach]

Hannah,

A couple of questions.

Do you know approximately when Tansy died; whether she married; if she was older or younger than William?

[almach]

1911, 30 Russell St Birkenhead. RG14; Piece: 21967; RD 452; ED 10.
William Henry Williams 21, corn porter. Birkenhead
Elizabeth Williams 19, Liverpool, married 1yr, 1 child born alive but died before the census.

* Married one year fits with the marriage posted by Christina, as the census was taken 2nd April, so only married one FULL year, albeit was in fact 19 months.

[geneius]

I think you will find that William Henry Williams married Elizabeth Robinson at St Mary Birkenhead in 1909.
Entry from familysearch.org

William Henry WIlliams
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 06 Sep 1909
Event Place St Mary, Birkenhead, Cheshire, England
Age (Formatted) 22y
Marital Status Single
Father's Name James Williams
Spouse's Name Elizabeth Robinson
Spouse's Marital Status Single
Spouse's Father's Name John Robinson

Per Cheshirebmd their first child appears to be William Henry b1910

A 1911 census has the couple
30 Russell St Birkenhead
William Henry Williams 21 Corn Porter Birkenhead
Elizabeth Williams 19 Liverpool
Children living 1 death p

crossed out is an entry William Henry Williams son aged 1, per Cheshirebmd.org their first child appears to be William Henry b1910

[geneius]

Have been looking at a James Grainger 1854 whose wife was Elizabeth WIlliams b 1861 Preston, they have a William Williams with them 1901 RG13; Piece: 3389; Folio: 78; Page: 43

[christanel]

Using the GRO birth index for the Grainger children in the 1901 I think Elizabeth married to James Grainger has the maiden name Fox. The only possible marriage I can find of an Elizabeth Williams to a James Grainger is in Liverpool Sept 1/4 1903. She is a widow in 1911.
I can't see a marriage for an Elizabeth Fox to a Williams but looking at the birth of John Williams in the 1901 born 1887 there is a birth registered Birkenhead Dec 1/4 1886 vol 8a page 479. mmn Fox.
I wonder if William H when asked his father's name at his marriage gave his stepfather's first name and it was assumed James surname was Williams?
Christina

[christanel]

There is a Mary I Williams age 17 with James grainger and Elizabeth Nee Fox in 1901. Looking at the image i think it is Mary J and there is this birth
Mary Jane Williams registered Birkenhead Sept 1/4 1883 vol 8a page 440 mmn Fox.
Elizabeth, a widow on parish relief, and children Jane 7, Richard 4, John 4 and Frank age 1are in the 1891 census.
RG12 Piece 2880 Folio 10 Page 14
John and Richard are twins mmn Fox.
Whether this is William Henry Williams family....?
On the same page Marriages June 1/4 1882 Elizabeth Fox and Richard Williams but in Liverpool.
Christina

[geneius]

I wonder if William H when asked his father's name at his marriage gave his stepfather's first name and it was assumed James surname was Williams?

Thanks christanel, that was the premise I was working on! Just cannot pull it together at present

Jx