Thomas Jones born Herefordshire 1827

[BJ Smith]

Sorry part of this has been round the block before but not specifically connected to Thomas Jones.

I I am looking for information on Thomas Jones born 1827 in Herefordshire. For a time he lived with Ann Ellen Price Troth. Ann called herself Jones during this time but I have not been able to find a marriage record. The rest of her life suggests they probably did not marry.

Whilst together they had 2 children Emma born 1854 in Hindley Wigan and Jeremiah born 1860 in Bridgenorth Staffordshire. I have only one sighting of Thomas on a census in 1861 with Ann, Emma and Jeramiah in Lancashire. He is shown as born in Ashburton Herefordshire, a miss translation from Ashperton I think. I have contacted the Herefordshire archives and they have checked their records and can find no Thomas Jones born around 1827 in Ashperton.

There were several Thomas Jones born in Herefordshire in 1827 but as he came and went from Ann’s life fleetingly I have no further information and would like to know from where he came and what became of him. His son Jeremiah is my Great Grandfather and Thomas my Great Great Grandfather. Any pointers most welcome.

Thomas is shown as the children’s father when they were christened at Prestwick, Goldwick, Lancashire

Thank you Brian

[janbooth]

Brian,

How about this one in the 1851 census of Ashperton, Herefordshire (HO107/1975, folio 367, page 18):

Hannah JONES Head Wid 69 Pauper (Lab) Herefordshire Ashperton
Robert do Son Un 25 Ag Lab do do
Thos do Grandson Un 23 Ag Lab do do

Living at Ashperton Road - any good?

Janet

[BJ Smith]

Thank you chasing this up with hope of a break through. Brian

[BJ Smith]

Another piece of the puzzle and as you say census shows Thomas living with his widowed grandmother. Still questions now over who Thomas's parents were and Hannah's husband. Then where he went on separation from Ann. Looks like more digging. Brian

[janbooth]

Now this may be a wild flight of fancy, Brian, but given that your Thomas JONES was born c1827 and states that he was born at Ashperton and I have found a Thomas JONES in the 1851 census of Ashperton shown as the grandson of Hannah JONES, how about this for a scenario:

4 November 1805 at Ashperton Edward JONES marries Hannah WALKER
11 May 1806 at Ashperton Anne daughter of Edward & Hannah JONES baptised
No appropriate marriage or burial at Ashperton for Anne JONES
15 July 1827 at Eaton Bishop Thomas son of Ann JONES baptised

Oh rats perhaps not as there is an Ann JONES baptised at Eaton Bishop in 1813. However, the same scenario might still apply, especially as there is no baptism for Thomas JONES at Ashperton. I have also found a Thomas JONES born c1828 at Ashperton in the 1881 census of Lower Mitton, Worcestershire but he is supposedly married to an Eliza with children ranging from 22 to 1, so I am not sure how he fits into the equation.

More to ponder!

Janet

[BJ Smith]

Janet thank you, what is that saying, we can choose our friends but not our family!? will chase this up. note only a limited number of Thomas Jones born around the time frame I have so I will see if any fit. Pity there is no 1831 census which may have provided some more detail Brian

[janbooth]

This is becoming quite interesting, Brian. I have traced the Thomas JONES who is living in Mitton, Worcestershire in the 1881 census back to an 1861 census record using his son Enoch as the search variant. This family are living in Kinfare, Staffordshire (RG9/1985, folio 50, page 9) but the interesting thing is that Thomas JONES shows his birthplace as Ashburton, Herefordshire, exactly the same as your Thomas JONES in the 1861 census of Oldham. I wonder if one or other of his supposed wives was telling a few porkies and he was not actually living with one of them at the time of the census record. Although Thomas JONES is a common name, Ashburton, Herefordshire, is not quite so common a place of birth is it. Although having said that, if they are one and the same, he got about a bit didn't he! The Worcestershire family are in Lower Mitton in the 1871 census RG10/3037, folio 29, page 11) living at Foundry St.

Given that the Eliza JONES from the Worcestershire family states that her birthplace is Shrawley in census records, there is a marriage at Shrawley on 11 October 1857 for a Thomas JONES to an Eliza HARRIS. GRO registration of marriage in December qtr 1857 at Martley reg district.

I am having a singular lack of success in tracing Jeremiah JONES born c1860 in Bridgnorth after the 1861 census. Have you found Ann & family in subsequent census records, Brian?

Janet

[BJ Smith]

Janet thank you so much for taking time on this, I will be following up everything you have found. To avoid repetition it may help to have a look at the Walton/Beck/Jones/Smith/Troth thread in the Lancashire county wide forum.

This provides an overview of Ann and the children and perhaps shows your thoughts that Ann was not perhaps 100% reliable in completion of census forms.

Ann herself was illegitimate (mother Hannah Troth) but the timing of her mother's marriage to John Smith a widower seems a little too much of a coincidence to me! Especially as the whole family eventually took on the Smith surname.

It just gets better and better. Many thanks Brian

[janbooth]

Gosh, what a complicated family, Brian! No wonder I couldn't find them in subsequent census records.

Ancestry hold a Salford Petition record for Thomas JONES of Oldham dated 12 April 1861 and one of the witnesses was Ann Ellen TROTH.

It looks as if the Worcestershire Thomas JONES died in 1883 - death registration December qtr 1883 at Kidderminster reg district, aged 55 and he is the only other Thomas JONES I can find in census records with a birthdate c1828 and a place of birth Ashperton/Ashburton, Herefordshire which is at the least a coincidence, the only fly in the ointment being the 1861 census record & the Salford Petition record which place him living at Oldham in March/April 1861. Thereafter the Oldham Thomas JONES seems to disappear!

Janet

[BJ Smith]

Janet yes I think my ancestors well and truly covered their tracks.

Sorry for delay in thanking you for this extra information, I am trying to set it out and get my head around it. Have some access to ancestry but cannot locate the petition you mention so far.

If Thomas Jones appeared for the Salford petition in 1861 and was present at Emma and Jeremiah's Christenings in Lancashire in 1860 (Jeremiah 03 Dec 1860 Prestwich, Glodwick, Lancashire) then I think we can say he was in Lancashire for the 1861 census.

My other concern is that Hereford archives could find no record of a Thomas Jones born around 1827\1828 in Ashperton in their records. I paid for the search and may have to go back to them to check again. Their explanation was he may have lived in or near Ashperton as a child and believed it was his place of birth. Will start again with a clear head after a good night's sleep. Thank you once again. Brian