Death record for burial at sea?

[davyr]

I do have a record from the Sydney Morning Herald of the Caroline's departure for London on May 12th 1843, and a Mrs James is listed as one of the passengers. This is why I assume they were nearly at their destination when she died on September 12th.

[geneius]

If you look at the arrivals on https://trove.nla.gov.au

This is the news entry !2 May 1843
12.-For London, the brig Caroline, Captain
Davidson, with colonial produce. Passengers
Mrs. Davidson, Mrs, James, Mr. Gibbes, Mr. and
Master Alexander, Mr. and Mrs. Pillion, Mr.
George Simmons and child, Messrs. Black, Ferlan,
Hanner, Droesos, Plhillipe, Cruise, Lavender, and
Wilson.

by 12th June the Brig Caroline was back in Hobart, which begs the question when & where did Ruth James die?

Ruth James departed Sydney circa May 1843 whre did she go between May and September?

e searched the GRO Death Index and there are two records for a Ruth James in 1843 - one in Chard (Somerset), the other in Newcastle Emlyn (Wales). Both "S" (presumably Summer?) quarter, which would include September. Both ladies were older (69 and 72 respectively) than my Ruth, though, who was born in 1784 so would have been 59 when she died.

NBI ( National Burial Index )

The former buried 28 July 1843 Hinton St George

The latter 25 July 1843 Llanfairorllwyn, Cardiganshire

[geneius]

I do have a record from the Sydney Morning Herald of the Caroline's departure for London on May 12th 1843, and a Mrs James is listed as one of the passengers. This is why I assume they were nearly at their destination when she died on September 12th.

How long did the journey last? From the Shipping intelligence you should be able to timeline the arrival & departure of the Brig Caroline!

[geneius]

#1

The will was "proved" on November 14th 1843 by John Barlow, the ship's mate, but I can find nothing about how Ruth died and whether or not she was buried at sea.

Where was the Will proved, I cannot see it listed on the .gov.uk site!

[geneius]

#14
I know I got the dates wrong for the will, it is 1843!!!! Still cannot find

Just found an 1843 Index To Death Duty Registers 1796-1903 Great Britain, that I am struggling to open!

[geneius]

The record is part of the National Archives ref IR27/265

Testator Ruth JAMES of Sydney NSW
Executor Charles Rich ROGERS of ?1 Holland Street Blackfriars
Court PC ( Prerogative Court of Canterbury ) Register 4 folio 738 other than 1843 no dates are given

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/h...ch-for-records

[davyr]

Yes. that's the correct one - for some reason you can only find the will on Ancestry by searching for Ruth Rogers - the search engine doesn't find it under Ruth James, but then Ancestry's search engine does often seem to be a bit hit and miss. The witnesses to Ruth's will made on board the Caroline on Sept. 12th 1843 include two of the passengers listed as being on the outward voyage (Mr Black and Mr Cruise), and the ship's mate (John Barlow) who was also the witness to the will's proving on November 14th (presumably at the Canterbury Court, as Barlow is noted as "appearing personally"). I'm guessing that the Caroline called at Hobart en route to London. This would have suited Ruth, who had a married daughter living in Hobart Town and she no doubt would have wanted to say her farewells as she was apparently returning to London to be with her only surviving son, Charles Richard Rogers. But sadly, never made it home.

[geneius]

Sorted now, I think we are back to the timeline of the Brig Caroline, we know a Mrs James was on board the sailing from Sydney to London in May 1843

When the will was made, 12 Sept 1843 Mrs James appears to be on board the Brig Caroline. as she made the Will I would assume at this date she was alive. Her death occurring between 12 Sept - 14 November 1843

Presume by November 1843 the Brig was back in London to enable the Mate to deal with the Will!

Launceston Examiner (Tas. : 1842 - 1899) Saturday 7 October 1843 p 3 Article
THE " CAROLINE.")-This fine brig was, we. re
gret to state, lost inl the heavy gale on Monday on
tihe coast of Tasman's Peninsular,, near Lagoon
Bay. We believe she was insured with the Van
Diemen's Land Company for £1000.-Ibid.
MIR. W. E. NAIRN is gazetted Assistant Comp;
troller of Convicts

[Kaggen]

The Uk GRO do a search of "Deaths at Sea", but you have to pay for the certificate first. If they can't find anything, you get your money back, can take 3 weeks. They scour the records for you with information you give them. Don't know if this is any use to you.

[davyr]

The reason I believe Ruth made the will when she knew she was close to death (and in fact died later that same day) is the declaration of John Barlow the ship's mate on November 14th at the will's proving that says "late of Sydney in New South Wales but on board the brig Caroline at sea widow deceased bearing (?) date the twelfth day of September in the present year of our Lord one thousand, eight hundred & forty three". I believe there was more than one brig called Caroline around at the time, as having set out from Sydney to London in May, it would seem a bit odd if the same vessel sank in a storm off Tasmania in October, surely?