to buy or not to buy

[wimsey]

just wondering whether to spend £6 on a pdf birth certificate based on scant evidence - what would you do ?

all I know about a particular person in my tree is that her first name was Rosanna, that according to the 1939 register (when she was Rosanna Irving, widow) she was born 1st June 1853, and that according to 1901 and 1911 censuses she was born in King's Lynn, Norfolk. (she's a widow on both those censuses)

The only Rosanna born in King's Lynn in 1853 I can find is Rosanna Hudson - so I suppose if the certificate says Rosanna Hudson was born on 1st June that would be pretty strong evidence that I had the right person ?

...... trouble is I can't find a Rosanna Hudson marrying a Mr Irving.

[almach]

Hi wimsey,

You didn't give census references, are these the ones

Sandgate, Kent, RG14; Piece: 4636; Schedule Number: 270
1911, Rose Irving, 54, widow, kings Lynn

1901, Fulham, RG13; Piece: 59; Folio: 10; Page: 11
Rosanna Irving 39, Kings Lynn
Elsie Rosalind Irving 7, dau, Bayswater

[wimsey]

Hi wimsey,

You didn't give census references, are these the ones

Sandgate, Kent, RG14; Piece: 4636; Schedule Number: 270
1911, Rose Irving, 54, widow, kings Lynn

1901, Fulham, RG13; Piece: 59; Folio: 10; Page: 11
Rosanna Irving 39, Kings Lynn
Elsie Rosalind Irving 7, dau, Bayswater

sorry for that omission - yes, those are exactly the censuses

[almach]

Until you confirm the census records I don't know whether Elsie is Rosanna's daughter. If she is her birth registration doesn't give mother's maiden name, which can indicate an illegitimate birth.

IRVING, ELSIE ROSALIND -
GRO Reference: 1893 J Quarter in MARYLEBONE Volume 01A Page 558

When Elsie Rosalind married in 1917 her father was entered as James Irving.

[wimsey]

when Rosanna died in 1941 Elsie Rosalind's husband was the informant

[almach]

No help in establishing Rosanna's birth surname, but Rosanna Hudson was baptised 15/2/1864 at Kings Lynn All Saints, parents Isaiah a sawyer and Maria. I was hoping her baptism record would include birth date but no such luck.

[almach]

I noticed in 1911 Rosanna says she gave birth to two children and only one was still alive. Have you tried to find the birth registration for the child who died?

There's a big difference in her birth year on the census returns 1901 and 1911. These pesky ancestors don't make things easy for us, do they!

[wimsey]

yes I have tried to find the other child. [Confession time - I have brought this family to the forum before]

I had this idea/theory that Elsie Rosalind had a twin named Jessie Rosalind but I was persuaded that "Jessie" was a mistake or mishearing of "Elsie".

Elsie Rosalind was born 27 April 1893, Queen Charlotte's Hospital, Marylebone Road (I have her birth certificate)

Ancestry have a baptism record which they have transcribed as Jessie Rosalind Irving, baptism 4 May 1893, Marylebone.

[almach]

Hi again Wimsey,

If you order Rosanna Hudson's birth certificate from GRO and enter an exact birth date (in your case 1st June 1853) if the birth date on the certificate is different the GRO will not send it and will reimburse you. On the 'Start Application' page where asked 'is the GRO reference known' click on NO, also enter type of cert (birth) and year 1853, then press submit at bottom of page, you will then be taken to a 2nd page where I'd advise you only fill in the boxes with a red asterix.

[wimsey]

thank you very much - I had a feeling there was some way to do it but I couldn't remember what