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  1. #1
    Starting to feel at home Clarinetguy's Avatar
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    Default Elusive Trundley

    I am struggling to find a birth registration for Ellen Trundley who was born in about 1855 according to 3 census returns. She was the daughter of Saville and Esther Trundley.
    • 1861 RG 9; Piece: 978; Folio: 58; Page: 13;
    • 1871 RG10; Piece: 1530; Folio: 63; Page: 19;
    • 1881 RG11; Piece: 1607; Folio: 51; Page: 5;

    An Ellen Trundley born in 1859 who keeps turning up in searches
    [Ellen Trundley 1859 / Jan-Feb-Mar / St Ives / Huntingdonshire / Volume 3b /Page 285] was the daughter of Richard Trundley and Ann Trundley (nee Johnson), so is not the one I'd like to trace.

    I have the CD of Swavesey registers but this does not show a baptism for Ellen at all. I have tried FreeBMD Phonetic searches and common variations of the surname such as Trundle.

    Any other ideas?
    Last edited by Pam Downes; 06-10-2017 at 9:44 PM. Reason: GSU Roll numbers copyright of Familysearch, and should not be quoted as part of a reference

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    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    I can't see a birth reg on the GRO index either.
    Try searching on the GRO index which gives the mother's maiden name. https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content You have to sign up but it is free.
    I can see Saville's registration with mother's maiden name Edwards but a Samuel age 8 S Ives only shows with a mother's maiden name Parish
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    Saville Trundley and Esther Middleton married in 1851. I cannot find the birth a daughter to them over the next 20 years. I searched the GRO site using just the surnames.

    This suggests a couple of possible answers:
    1. Her birth was never registered,
    2. Her birth was registered under another name – in other words she was not their natural daughter. Bear in mind that in those days adoption was often a very informal non legal process. There was no statutory framework until the late 1920s.

    Looking at the 1871 census Saville and Esther have 3 children: Samuel born 1853, Ellen born 1855 and John born 1860.

    Checking the GRO birth index this shows that the maiden name for Samuel’s mother to be Parish rather than Middleton (St. Ives Dec 1852 Vol 03B Page 238), and the same thing for John (St. Ives Dec 1859 Vol 03B Page 257). This means that Esther would have been married before she married Saville.

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    Starting to feel at home Clarinetguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megan Roberts View Post
    Checking the GRO birth index this shows that the maiden name for Samuel’s mother to be Parish rather than Middleton (St. Ives Dec 1852 Vol 03B Page 238), and the same thing for John (St. Ives Dec 1859 Vol 03B Page 257). This means that Esther would have been married before she married Saville.
    Yes, Esther Parish married John Middleton before she marred Saville Trundley. Saville was also married previously to Ann Edwards.

    Sorry if I did not make it clear that I have details for many of the Trundleys in my tree but this lady is a mystery. I agree with your 2 suggestions Megan.

    Given that Saville's 7 children with Ann were baptised and appear in the parish records, I had wondered if it were likely that those he had with Esther were baptised elsewhere (if at all) because Esther was a non-conformist? However, since her first marriage took place at St. Bride's church London, it suggests she was not: she also married Saville at Swavesey Parish Church.

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    Super Moderator almach's Avatar
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    (forget this I see they also have a daughter named Esther with them in 1861)
    Back to the drawing board.
    Do you think it possible she was registered Esther Trundley, perhaps known as Ellen to distinguish between mother and daughter? Have you found a marriage for her?

    From the GRO site
    TRUNDLEY, ESTHER PARISH
    GRO Reference: 1857 J Quarter in ST IVES Volume 03B Page 270
    TRUNDLEY, ESTHER PARISH
    GRO Reference: 1857 J Quarter in ST IVES Volume 03B Page 270 Occasional Copy: A
    TRUNDLEY, ESTHER PARISH
    GRO Reference: 1857 S Quarter in ST IVES Volume 03B Page 242
    TRUNDLEY, ESTHER PARISH
    GRO Reference: 1857 S Quarter in ST IVES Volume 03B Page 242 Occasional Copy: A
    Alma

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    Here's an explanation of what 'Occasional Copy' means.

    https://www.
    lostcousins.com/newsletters2/dec16news.htm#Occasional
    Alma

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    Super Moderator almach's Avatar
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    Clarinetguy,

    Do you know what happened to Sarah Trundley age 3months in 1841 (HO107; Piece: 70; Book: 13; Folio: 6; Page: 7) I think she's with family in 1851 described as cousin, age 10, born Swavesey. HO107; Piece: 1749; Folio: 336; Page: 8;
    Then I lose her. Will check for a marriage or death. I wondered if she could be Ellen's mother and Ellen's birth registered under the father's name.............just a thought as I've had no luck finding an Ellen Trundley to fit. It would make Sarah rather a young mother however.

    ETA: Sarah married William Frankham but not until 1865, so if Sarah is Ellen's mother, not looking likely now, then William will not be the father.
    Marriages Jun 1865, St Ives, 3b 478
    Trundley Sarah married either William Cain or William Frankham

    1871, Cambridge/ RG10; Piece: 1590; Folio: 77; Page: 24
    William Frankham 26, Long Stowe
    Sarah Frankham 29, Swavensey
    Agnes S Frankham 2, Cambridge.

    FRANKHAM, AGNES SARAH TRUNDLEY
    GRO Reference: 1868 J Quarter in CAMBRIDGE Volume 03B Page 524

    I checked all Ellen's registered 1854 - 1855 St Ives, none seemed a likely match.
    Last edited by almach; 06-10-2017 at 11:40 PM. Reason: Added extra info
    Alma

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  11. #8
    Starting to feel at home Clarinetguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by almach View Post
    Clarinetguy,
    ETA: Sarah married William Frankham but not until 1865, so if Sarah is Ellen's mother, not looking likely now, then William will not be the father.
    Marriages Jun 1865, St Ives, 3b 478
    Trundley Sarah married either William Cain or William Frankham

    The CD I have says she married William Frankham June 18 1865 Samuel Trundley (brother) was one witness.

    I checked all Ellen's registered 1854 - 1855 St Ives, none seemed a likely match.

    That's dedication above and beyond!
    Thank you.

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