GRO Phase 3. Certificates in PDF format.

[Ken_R]

Can anyone advise as to any recent updates concerning this? I believe that I have read some dates in the past but can't remember them.

Additionally, on the GRO (Birth) Database, why are there entries where no MMN is entered? Is this because none was entered [on the Certificate], or is it illegible, or does it result from a 'glitch' in loading the Data?

I have one particular entry in mind. Edward Williams, Mar Qtr 1848, Ellesmere Union, Vol 18, Page 60. If the MMN was HOWELLS or HOWELL, then that would smash a Brick Wall that has been bothering me for years.

I can't find him in 1851 or 1861, and in 1871 he gives his Place of Birth as Dawley, Wales. Post 1871, I have him well and truly nailed. For 1861, I have a tenuous as a lodger in Birmingham, where he remained for the rest of his life.

One of the problems I am encountering is that during this period, (from the All England, Select Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 index) there seems to have been both a Richard and Maria Williams, producing offspring, in both Dawley (which is just North of Wolverhampton) and Broughton (which is up between Mold and Chester).

Edward Williams married twice. Firstly in 1871 to Maria Thirlby, Bishop's Ryder, Birmingham. Father, Richard Williams, Blacksmith. One of the witnesses being Martha Ann Jones. Interestingly, or perhaps, confusingly, there is a Martha Ann Jones in Dawley in 1871.

The second marriage being in 1881 to Sarah Ann Wem. Again, Father, Richard Williams, Blacksmith.

The family of Richard Williams (1807-) Wem, Shropshire, is also pretty well nailed. I just can't connect THIS Edward with THAT Richard.

A Public Tree has connected him to a Richard Williams in North West Wales but I have dismissed that as, 1. He is shown as unmarried. 2. The Census of 1871 was taken only a few days after the marriage and I'd imagine he'd have had better things to do than go off on his own visiting parents!

I started off with a couple of simple questions and seemed to have rambled on.

[christanel]

Before I take a look at the specific names in your post you asked "Additionally, on the GRO (Birth) Database, why are there entries where no MMN is entered? Is this because none was entered [on the Certificate], or is it illegible, or does it result from a 'glitch' in loading the Data?"
No mmn recorded usually means that the child's surname and the mother's surname are the same indicating an illegitimate birth.
Christina

[stepives]

WILLIAMS, EDWARD. mmn. FOX
GRO Reference: 1847 D Quarter in ELLESMERE UNION Volume 18 Page 59
WILLIAMS, EDWARD. No mmn.
GRO Reference: 1848 M Quarter in ELLESMERE UNION Volume 18 Page 60

[almach]

If the MMN was HOWELLS or HOWELL, then that would smash a Brick Wall that has been bothering me for years.

Ken, why would you hope MMN is Howell(s)? Do you know that is Edward Williams mother's MMN?

I see on Edward's 2nd marriage in 1881 his age is 30yrs, so he could have been born anytime between 1848 - 1851

[Pam Downes]

I knew someone had posted details about the dates of Phase 3.
https://www.british-genealogy.com/th...-Pilot-Phase-3

The different phases are now being evaluated by the GRO. Hopefully they will reach a decision soon.

This thread is the one posted when Phase One was about to begin.
You might like to read post #8.
https://www.british-genealogy.com/th...-Functionality

ADDED: Don't forget that until 1874 not all births were recorded.
And when people married, some of them didn't know their father's name so either said what they thought it might be, or else just said the first name they thought of.

Pam

[Peter Goodey]

why are there entries where no MMN is entered? Is this because none was entered [on the Certificate], or is it illegible, or does it result from a 'glitch' in loading the Data?

My recollection is that GRO don't know or won't say - just that the transcription doesn't show a MMN for whatever reason - blank in the register, illegible, forgot to do it....

But then my memory is shaky these days.

[Ken_R]

My recollection is that GRO don't know or won't say - just that the transcription doesn't show a MMN for whatever reason - blank in the register, illegible, forgot to do it....

But then my memory is shaky these days.

Thanks. That confirms much as I suspected.

Ken, why would you hope MMN is Howell(s)? Do you know that is Edward Williams mother's MMN?

I see on Edward's 2nd marriage in 1881 his age is 30yrs, so he could have been born anytime between 1848 - 1851

Thanks, but I have no other information about his parents other than what is shown on his Marriage Certificate(s). The Richard Edwards/Maria Howells link was progressing swimmingly until, it suddenly struck me that I hadn't actually connected him to this family.

He just seems to suddenly appear in 1871 - His name, and everything else, could be a complete fabrication!

Thanks all.

[christanel]

For 1861, I have a tenuous as a lodger in Birmingham, where he remained for the rest of his life.

This one ? Which puts his birth date as a couple of years earlier than shown on later censuses
1861 RG 9 Piece 2131 Folio 38 Page 20
73 Cottage Lane Lady Wood, Birmingham
Richard Davies 61
Sarah Davies 54
Sarah I Davies 23
Mary A Davies 16
Joseph I Davies 14
Edward Williams 15 Shrewsbury, Shropshire

If so this appears to be a possible baptism
Edward Williams
Born 6 Sep 1846
Baptised 13 Sep 1846
At St. Chad's, Shrewsbury, Shropshire
Father = Richard Williams
Mother - Jane
FHL Film Number: 918794

Yet the only birth registration in the Sept 1/4 for Shrewsbury doesn't give a mmn.
Edward Williams-
GRO index 1846 Sept 1/4 Shrewsbury Vol 18 Page 170

And this could be him in 1871 with mother Jane which would rule him out as your man in 1861
1871 RG10 Piece 2776 Folio 14 Page 20
Jane Williams 58 Laundress
Elizabeth Williams 31 Seamstress
George Williams 28 Cabinet maker
Edward Williams 24 Printer Con?..
Ellen Williams 22 Dress maker.
All born Shrewsbury

From Edward's occupation he looks to be the man who marries Fanny Naylor and in 1881 his occupation is Letter press printer and teacher of phonography.

Christina

[macwil]

Here they are in 1851

HO107 Piece/Folio: 1992 / 468
Crescent Gardens, Shrewsbury St Chad
Richard Williams Head M 43 Llandrinio, Montgomeryshire
Jane Williams Wife F 37 Shry, Salop
Elizabeth Williams Daughter F 11 Shry, Salop
George Williams Son M 8 Shry, Salop
Edward Williams Son M 4 Shry, Salop
Ellen Williams Daughter F 2 Shry, Salop

And in 1861
RG09 Piece/Folio1873 / 8
Crescent Gardens, Shrewsbury St Chad
Jane Williams Head F 45 St Chad, Shropshire
Elizth Williams Daughter F 21 St Chad, Shropshire
Geo Williams Son M 18 St Chad, Shropshire
Edwd Williams Son M 14 St Chad, Shropshire
Ellen Williams Daughter F 12 St Chad, Shropshire

[macwil]

. . .
If so this appears to be a possible baptism
Edward Williams
Born 6 Sep 1846
Baptised 13 Sep 1846
At St. Chad's, Shrewsbury, Shropshire
Father = Richard Williams
Mother - Jane
FHL Film Number: 918794 . .

There is a similar record which gives a birth date of 06 Aug 1846 with FHL microfilm 503,526, 503,527, 503,528, otherwise details are the same.