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  1. #291
    Brick wall demolition expert!
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    The only John Samuel Phillips that I can currently see on Ancestry is Baptism 30 Sept 1799 St Giles in the Fields Holborn-parents John/Elizabeth. There is another but he is recorded in the UK in later Census. Not sure if we have looked at these names much earlier in the searches.

    Phillip

  2. #292
    Loves to help with queries
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    Morning Phillip
    I remembered that I missed a piece of info yesterday!
    Bequests from Benjamin Goldsmid 8th August 1808- . . ."and James PHILLIPS, Cuthbert Rippon and Thomas Nixon (Benjamin's clerks);John Hamilton of the Crescent, Kingsland Road. Rebecca Gree, Widow; Rev Hershall; Abraham David Gompertz; Sir Thomas Moxom; Benjamin Goldsmid Elliot and his wife Lavina, Joseph hart-Myers and Joseph's brother-in-law John Jacobs; Isreal Moses brother of Edward Goldsmid; Mary Sturdy Catley in his employ."

    Benjamin Lyon Phillips was the father of Coleman Lyon Phillips. The children of Coleman Lyon Phillips mentioned but not named.
    Don't know if all of the above is of any significance ??
    I had a look at PHILLIPS Samuel Levi Will Extract - probate date 1812 (13 OcT) Address Hverfordwest, Pembrokeshire. BANKER.
    Children: Sons Philip, John, Nathaniel and Stephen Sewell Phillips and daughter Sarah Charles.
    Other relatives: Brother in law, Benjamin Jones.
    The name Jones rings a bell at the wedding of James Phillips ??
    Have a good day.
    Kind regards.
    Jen.

  3. #293
    Brick wall demolition expert!
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    Hi Jen
    As an important re-cap as you already know my connection to the Goldsmid lines is twofold:
    1 See BG Jewish roots thread Henry Goldsmid and Sarah Ward Ogle line 27.10.2011 #1 and 7 in particular. You will see that my John Hart/Elizabeth Jacobs my 3x great grandparents line married into the Benjamin Goldsmid descendants through Catherine aka Kate Hart. She had married 1st Abraham Crawcour 2nd Lionel Cambell Goldsmid- Lionel was the son of Henry who was the son of Benjamin Goldsmid died 1808 the financier. This is the Benjamin Goldsmid with sister Hester who appears at the wedding of James Phillips his clerk

    2 I then have a second Goldsmid connection through the marriage of Albert Aaron Goldsmid son of Joseph Goldsmid son of Michael Goldsmid to Phoebe Hart daughter of Aaron Hart/Ann Rebecca Crawcour my 3x great grandparents.
    See BG Forum thread Dr Joseph Albert Goldsmid

    There are Ancestry family trees which have incorrect data on the lines - see Synagogue Scribes for data on Michael and Joseph Goldsmid plus JewishGen UK Data base 1851 Anglo Jewry Census Joseph Goldsmid ID 27668

    The Michael Goldsmid Ha Levi line is one I need to research further.

    I do not know if the Michael Goldsmid line connects in any way to Benjamin Goldsmid or his siblings.

    Returning to your Elizabeth Goldmid aka Goldsmith Phillips- the key question is which of the middle names is correct/relevant in terms of any Benjamin Goldsmid relationship bearing also in mind your original posts on this thread where Goldschmidt was also used as a potential last name. The Goldsmid and Goldschmidt are different families.
    With regard to Henry Lyall aka Lyon aka Lyons Phillips the same issues apply as to his sister- what is the correct middle name and does it in any way have any relationship to Benjamin Goldsmid and the James and John Phillips as per the wedding data.

    In both cases of Elizabeth and Henry these middle names are important because they are either relevant to Goldsmid/Lyons connections or if not Goldsmid or Lyon/Lyons then the connection maybe nothing at all to do with the Goldsmid and the Jewish link as per your original posts.

    Why are the middle names spelled differently? Is it purely because of a recording error later changed in later records or is the spelling actually Goldsmith and Lyall and those were the correct names subsequently modified over time. That is a key issue.

    What are your thoughts?
    Phillip

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