Introduction & unusual request . . .

[phillip]

The complexities of Divorce proceedings are well described in various sources and documents on line. Pfeffer cites that between 1700-1857 in England, Wales and Ireland there were 323 parliamentary divorces. In the case of the Bet Din, the divorce proceedings between Jews and those involving Gentiles or conversions is recorded in the Pinkas entries in 2 volumes 1805-1855 and some other records. The Pinkas records are detailed and refer to conversions as well as Gets.

It may also be the case that the Phillips/Goldsmid married abroad if indeed they married.

Phillip

[phillip]

Here is another important record which relates to Maria Goldsmid the daughter of George Goldsmid one of the Goldsmid banker families. This concerned the Marriage of Maria to David Bromer. David Bromer was a clerk to George Goldsmid and Maria was 16 years old.The marriage was objected to - see Goldsmid v Bromer 22 Nov 1798 ( see the case online) and also in Jewish Marriages and the English Law H S Q Henriques. The Jewish Quarterly Review Vol 20, No 3 (April 19080 pp 391-449) JSTOR online document.

"On the 22 November 1795, David Bromer and Maria Goldsmid, then sixteen years of age, the daughter of the well known financier, met by appointment and went by coach to the Shakespeare Tavern in Covent Garden, where two persons were in readiness as witnesses. In their presence the Hebrew words which constitute the ceremony of Kedushim were pronounced, and this was followed by cohabitation between the parties. Accordingly consummation had taken place, the marriage could not be effectively impugned upon the ground, successfully taken in the former case, that Kedushim alone could not create a valid marriage. It was threfore objected that the witnesses were incompetent, and contended that the marriage was for that reason invalidated......."
The Court upheld the objection and pronounced against the validity of the marriage. The decision was afterwards upheld on appeal.

One of the witnesses to the marriage was Michael Abraham Levy who was 1st cousin to David Bromer. Levy and Bromer's mothers were sisters.

This Goldsmid marriage is of interest because it maybe that the family history was referring to this marriage or else there was another separate Goldsmid/Phillips marriage which was not approved of. In any event, the record provides another insight into how marriages were perceived by the Goldsmid but in this case the young age of Maria appears to have been a significant factor.

Phillip

[JenBales]

IN REPLY TO YOUR PREVIOUS POST . . .
Hi Phillip
Thank you so much for your reply. It is very interesting – unfortunately I am not familiar with Jewish tradition or name. . but I am hopeful you will discover something!
Going back a bit . . .
I took your advice and have been looking at the Phillips family names. Going through the generations there are many John’s, James’, William’s, Henry’s, Sarah’s, Elizabeth’s and Ann’s !!
You were asking about Christopher Phillips, who lived in Rondebosch, Cape Town, which I mentioned to you in my last post. It seems that he had also worked on a Phillips Family Tree which is dated 11 March, 1988 . . we both start with my g.g.g.g. grandfather John . . .
He has the father of John as THOMAS . . .John b. London September 1797, was a farmer at Cuylerville, near the Fish River Mouth. He married Sarah Hayhurst, daughter of leader Richard Hayhurst and Ellen NN, (?) then Ann (Murray) Cawood, widow of John Cawood on 14 Feb 1853. Ann was born in Ardee, Louth, Ireland on 9th Febuary, 1808. John and Ann had no children together. Therefore the children listed for John & Sarah are:
Mary Dodgson Phillips b. 3 November 1823; m. Leo Africanna Whitfield, farmer of the farm “Gum Grove”. Leo was the son of John Brown and Charlotte Whitfield.
Elizabeth GOLDSMITH Phillips b. 9 December, 1824; Henry LYONS Phillips b. 6 October, 1828 in Keiskamastoek m. Johannah FITZROY who came from County Dublin, Ireland . . .
(Hannah Rothschild had renounced Judaism and married a Christian, the Hon Henry Fitzroy) (coincidence??)
Richard Hayhurst Phillips b. 6 July 1830; John Phillips b. 13 August, 1832; Julia Sarah Phillips b. 28 November, 1835 m. Jacob Brown, a farmer, of the farm “Lynedoch”, mouth of the Great Fish River; Amelia Phillips b. 11 May, 1838 m. John Paine or Payne a farmer, had one child, Joseph Edward Payne; Ann Phillips b. 1839 Fish River Mouth m. Wallis and then John Whitfield.
Thomas Leopold Phillips b. 8 July 1840, a wagon maker m. Sarah Vice. After she died he married Marion Watson; William Phillips b. 4 June, 1843 d. 4 March, 1844; Joseph Edward Phillips b. 16 February, 1845; James Ladson Phillips b. 28 March, 1848.

Christopher must have been a cousin of my dad’s . . . it is a bit confusing, but it looks like his line may have followed down from Henry Lyons or Thomas Leopold.
Going back to James Ladson Phillips. He is not noted on John’s death certificate, which is signed by Henry LYONS Phillips, but he is included on various family trees. Christopher notes that James Ladson was the son of James Phillips b. 1818 from Middlesex, London and Sarah Elizabeth Palmer b. 3 May 1827. After she died in July 1881 he married Caroline Mary Lloyd. James Ladson m. Louisa Whitehead and they had one daughter, Susannah Phillips b. 26 February, 1901
James Phillips sailed to South Africa 13 December, 1819 from Gravesend, Kent, England. They were part of Morgan’s party on the “Ocean”. He is listed as a farmer. He died 8 October, 1893 in Tarkastad, Eastern Cape, South Africa. James parents are not listed . . .
All his children were from his 1st wife Sarah.
Here, I am not sure if Christopher Phillips got two Phillips families mixed up . . . or was James a younger brother to John . . .
Lastly, I was looking at:
London Court Directory of the Jews of Great Britian:
Rothchild Leopold de, . . . and address
Rothchild, Theodore . . . (a note here – my dad was named Bruce Lennox Theodore Phillips.
We have always wondered where did the name Theodore come from ?? Coincidence ?? It was changed to Neville Ross)
Synagogal Directory of Jews of Gt,. Britian
Leopold De Rothchild, Esq
S.J Phillips, Esq
J.L Simmonds, Esq
Representatives of Central Synagogue, Great Portland Road
S.J Phillips and Leopold de Rothchild
Local committee
S.J. Phillips and Leopold de Rothchild. (I wonder what the S.J stands For ??)
I am also not sure if Christopher Phillips got two Phillips families mixed up . . . or was James a younger brother to John, or a cousin . . . To add to my further confusion: I came across this letter yesterday . . .remembering that it was my g.g.g.g. grandfather JOHN Phillips that came out in Wilson’s Party on the “la Belle Alliance”  
PHILLIPS, James re Thomas WILLSON, 1820 Settler Written by Sue Mackay.
National Archives, Kew CO48/45, 189
No.3 Tann St
Aldersgate St
3 Sept 1819
Cape of Good Hope Colonization
Sir,
I have to apologise for troubling you, but understanding that a Mr. Thomas WILSON is officially employed by Government in collecting persons and sending in statements for the above purpose to your office and having seen a letter of his of which I beg to trouble you with a copy on the other side, and being desirous of avoiding the possibility of becoming a dupe to an artifice, I respectfully request to be informed if what he states is the fact, as the terms proposed by him are that £5 be paid the first week of the current month into his hands without any security for its proper appropriation, £5 in Octr & £5 the last week in the same month, which last sum is for the purchase of stores of him on landing at the colony.
You will observe by his letter that it is necessary I should determine by the 8th inst and will therefore I trust excuse my pressing for an immediate answer.
I am Sir most respectfully
Your obed't humble svt
Jas. PHILLIPS
190 [copy]
Bridge Cottage
Chelsea Water Works
3 Sep 1819
Sir,
In conformity to the Government regulation for settling at the Cape of Good Hope your name has been duly entered to proceed under my direction and you are therefore required to pay your first deposit on or before the 8th inst otherwise you will be excluded the present opportunity. The vessel for your conveyance will be ready to sail in November.
I am Sir
Your obedient servant
(signed) Thos. WILSON

[JenBales]

Hi again Phillip
I have just read your latest post - again very interesting, thank you!
I remembered seeing that one of James Phillips and Ann Ladson's daughters was called Rachel Maria Phillips. Another coincidence or am I "barking up the wrong tree" regarding Christopher Phillips tree . . .
Kind regards.
Jen

[JenBales]

Hi Phillip
SORRY - CORRECTION TO MY LAST POST . . .
Ann Ladson b. 8 Jun 1793 was m. to George Phillips b. 25 October, 1790, Middlesex, London, England.
They married on 14 August 1814 at St Pancras Old Church, London, England.
They had the following children:
1. George Phillips b. 1817
2. James Phillips b. 1819
3. John Phillips
4. Anne Priscilla Phillps b. 11 October 1822 South Africa
5. William Henry Phillips
6. Rachel Maria Phillips

Ann's father was James Ladson and her mother was Ann Bishop.
Kind regards.
Jen.

[JenBales]

Hi Phillip
ok - now I give up! I have just found this:
18 June, 1848
A Son baptized of JAMES and SARAH ELIZABETH PHILLIPS of Bathurst, by the name:
James Ladson, b. 28 March 1848
James Barrow. Colonial Chaplain.

Kind regards.
Jen.

[phillip]

It's very interesting regarding the Hannah Goldsmid note. I wonder why she was added to the family history. J L Simmonds who is listed on the Synagogue records is one of my relatives. He is Judah Lee Simmonds son of Wolf Simmonds.
I need to look closely at what you have written and make sense of the data.
Phillip

[JenBales]

Good Luck!!















Hi Phillip
Good luck!!
Kind regards
Jen.

[JenBales]

Hi Phillip
Just come across this:
When Mayer Rothschild died he gave specific laws that the House of Rothschild were to follow. Only male members of the family were allowed to participate in the family business, this included a reported sixth secret bastard son" . . .
Kind regards.
Jen

[phillip]

Hi Jen
The will of Nathan Mayer Rothschild 1836 (see Ancestry.Com for his full will) refers to 4 sons Lionel, Anthony,Nathaniel, Mayer plus his daughters, wife, brothers, son in laws et al. There are numerous online references to the Rothschilds including who they may or may not have had relationships some of which beggar belief and are not born out with scholarship and careful research.There may or not have been illegitimate births but we need facts and records if they exist or at least some kind of evidence rather than speculation.

I will look further.

Phillip