Looking for a Royal Navy Service Record

[AliMac]

Hi all,
I am trying to find the Royal Navy Service Record for an Albert Ernest Berry born about 1882. On his marriage certificate in 1906 his occupation is listed as 'Gymnastics Instructor RN'. I am assuming this is the same as the modern day PTI (Physical Training Instructor). I did find a record on Find My Past for someone by that name but the place of birth differs with that on the 1911 Census, which shows him as born In Dorchester, Oxfordshire. The Navy Record states Camberwell. The year of birth is 1882 on the Navy Record and his service number is 207948. Any help in locating the right record would be great! I am trying to find Next of Kin to prove who his parents were. I do know his father was James Berry on the marriage record, but no idea who his mother is?
Thanks,
Ali

[almach]

Hi Ali, I wonder if this is Albert Ernest and his father James, if so Albert is entered as Ernest.

1891, 38, Redmore Rd, Hammersmith, Fulham, RG12; Piece: 38; Folio: 95; Page: 42;
James Berry 34, widower, bricklayer, Saunders, Kent
Ernest Berry 9, Camberwell
Dora Berry 7, Camberwell
Maggie Berry 5, Camberwell

1911, 76 Murray Road, Ealing South; RG14; Piece: 6900; SN: 279
married 20yrs
James Berry 54, bricklayer, Dorchester ???
Louisa Berry 53, Chorley, Shropshire
Lilian Berry 14, dau, Fulham
Ethel Berry 22, visitor. single, Fulham

1901, Fulham, RG13; Piece: 55; Folio: 14; Page: 20
James Berry 44, bricklayer, Dorchester, Dorset
Louisa Berry 44, Chorley
Arthur Taylor 15, Fulham
Ethel Taylor 13, Fulham
Lilian Taylor 4, Fulham (I think Lilian is actually surnamed Berry)

Although James can't decide where he was born - Dorchester or Saunders Kent. I believe it is the same person as Louisa Berry and her children are living next door to James in 1891

1891, RG12; Piece: 38; Folio: 95; Page: 42
Fanny L Taylor 34, widow, Chorley Bridgnorth
Arthur J Taylor 5, Fulham
William H Taylor 4, Fulham
Ethel V Taylor 2, Fulham

Marriages Mar 1891, Fulham, vol 1a; page 382
James Berry/Fanny Louisa Taylor

[almach]

If the above is your Albert Ernest it seems his mother was surnamed BAIN

BERRY, DORA AGNES MABEL, Mother's maiden name. BAIN
GRO Reference: 1883 J Quarter in CAMBERWELL Volume 01D Page 818

Marriage: Dec 25th 1913, Parish Church of St Stephen. Hounslow
George Henry Tarrant, 28, bootmaker. Dora Agnes Mabel Berry, 30, father James Berry, bricklayer, deceased.

ETA: How disappointing it was all going well until.................BERRY, ERNEST ALEXANDER, Mother's maiden name BAIN
GRO Reference: 1881 S Quarter in CAMBERWELL Volume 01D Page 751

So, the name ALEXANDER puts what I've found in doubt.

[AliMac]

Thanks for the above, which I have previously found too. I can find no record of an Albert Ernest Berry being born in 1882, nor a couple of years either side. This is why it is a mystery as the 1911 Census puts him aged 29 and born in Dorchester, Oxon. If I can locate his service record it may provide more clues?

[janbooth]

This looks as if it may be the Albert Ernest BERRY whose Naval Service record you have already found in the 1891 census of Hammersmith (RG12/38, folio 95, page 42) living at 36 Redmore Road:

James BERRY Head Widr 34 Bricklayer Kent Saunders
Ernest do Son 9 Scholar London Camberwell
Dora do Daur 7 do do do
Maggie do Daur 5 do do do

The profession of Ernest's father in this census record fits with that of his father on Albert Ernest's marriage record in the parish register of St Peter, Fulham to Ethel Emily BOULDING - available to view on Ancestry - so I think it is quite likely that this Ernest is indeed your Albert Ernest.

Could this perhaps be your James BERRY in the 1901 census of Fulham (RG13/55, folio 14, page 20) living at 38 Protheroe Road with 2nd? wife Louisa and presumably her two children from a previous marriage and one daughter from their marriage, as his profession is shown as a Bricklayer but the interesting thing is that in this census his birthplace is shown as Dorchester, Dorset.

James BERRY, widower, 25, Bricklayer, 36 Redmore Road, father John BERRY, Bricklayer, married Fanny Louisa TAYLOR, widow, 35, 36 Redmore Road, father William TAYLOR, Engineer, at St John the Evangelist, Hammersmith on 19 February 1891 - so why is he shown as a Widower in the 1891 census record - strange??

The Royal Naval Service record of Albert Ernest BERRY is available to view on FMP so I cannot give you full details because of their terms & conditions but it does give all the ships he served in and his rating on those ships and if you download it on a pay per view basis it will give you the information you require to confirm that it is your Albert Ernest BERRY. The second marriage record of his father James will also enable you to go back yet another generation.

Janet

[AliMac]

Hi Janet,
Many thanks for taking the time to look at this. However, I am aware of the details in your post. James Berry was a widower, as was his 2nd wife Fanny Louisa Taylor. He married an Agnes Hodkinson Bain (born Leith in Scotland) in 1876 and she had a son Ernest Alexander Berry in 1882 in Camberwell, not Dorchester Oxon. Unless, his name was changed I cannot see how he is Albert Ernest. The bricklayer profession is mirrored further back through James' father John and his father Joseph, all in Dorchester, Oxon. Without the right Albert Ernest Berry, I cannot make the link to James and all those others I have found in Parish Registers in Dorchester. Your comment below has confused me, not difficult!!

"This looks as if it may be the Albert Ernest BERRY whose Naval Service record you have already found in the 1891 census of Hammersmith (RG12/38, folio 95, page 42) living at 36 Redmore Road:"

I have found a Service Record for an Albert Ernest Berry on FMP, service number 207948, is this the same one as you are referring to as it has no address on it or NOK?
Regards,
Ali

[janbooth]

Yes it is, Ali, but if you look at the actual record, which you have to pay for, and not just the transcription, which is free to view, the third ship that Albert serves on gives his Rating, i.e. Occupation which is extremely relevant, as is the date, to the marriage record of your Albert Ernest BERRY.

Sorry, I should have bit a bit of punctuation in the info about the 1891 census record I found. What I meant to say is that the Ernest BERRY shown as the son of James BERRY, Bricklayer, in the 1891 census of Hammersmith, is likely to be the Albert Ernest BERRY whose Naval record you had already found - apologies!

Janet

[AliMac]

Hi Janet,
Wow, good spot! I read that as Gym Instructor as per his occupation in 1906 on the Marriage Record. So, he was born in Camberwell, not Dorchester. However, I can only find the birth for an Ernest Alexander Berry in the Jul-Sep quarter of 1881 in Camberwell, mother's maiden name is Bain as in James' first wife. The Navy Record gives his dob as 20 May 1882? That said, his age on his wedding day on 20th October 1906 was 25, which would make his birth 1881. Perhaps, after his mother's death, which I am still looking for, his birth name was changed from Ernest Alexander Berry to Albert Ernest Berry by the time he joined the Navy in 1900 as I read it?
Regards,
Ali

[janbooth]

Strange, isn't it. I can find a baptism for Dora Agnes Mabel BERRY in 1883 at Camberwell on Ancestry's London parish registers, but I cannot find a baptism for Albert Ernest/Ernest Alexander or sister Maggie. The marriage of James BERRY & Agnes Hodkson BAIN took place at St John the Evangelist, Lambeth on 25 September 1876 so there is no likelihood of Albert Ernest being born prior to their marriage. I can see why he had the forename Alexander on his birth registration as Agnes's father is David Alexander BAIN.

I was looking to see if I could find Albert Ernest on the 1939 Register to see what he called himself there, but it seems as if he died prior to 1939 as Ethel Emily is shown as a widow living in Fulham with presumably widowed mother Fanny BOULDING and sister Frances. However, he is calling himself Albert Ernest BERRY in the Electoral Registers of Finsbury & Fulham (available to view on Ancestry). In 1918 & 19 he is living at 5 Parkville Road with Charles W BOULDING the same address as his widow Ethel E is living at in the 1939 Register. The first year Ethel Emily is shown in the Electoral Registers is 1923 at 5 Parkville Road with mother Fanny, George Herbert & Minnie Ethel BOULDING. So did Albert Ernest die sometime between 1919 & 1923? It still doesn't explain the change of name but then we will probably never know why.

Janet

[AliMac]

Thanks Janet. Yes, Albert Ernest seemed to move around a bit after his Navy days. I do know that he had three children with Ethel and one of them Stanley George Berry served in the Navy as a barber (I have located his service record). Albert Ernest ran dining rooms in 1911 at 8 Dawes Road in Fulham with his wife. Their eldest child Cecil was born in Gillingham in 1906, which is close to Chatham, one of the places that Albert served. The Charles W Boulding he lived with was his brother-in-law. I have not yet found a death for Albert, but he does seem to disappear after 1919 and as you say his wife was shown as a widow on the 1939 Register.
Regards,
Ali