Brickwall with the surname Williams

[Diamond]

Hello,
It has been a while since I have posted any questions but I am stuck.

Philadelphia Williams was born in Qtr. 2 1873, Hastings, Sussex. Her parents were James Williams and Mary Ann Glazier. They married on 26th July 1873 at the parish church of Ore in Sussex. He was a 27 year old widower and she was 19 year old spinster. The difficulty I am having is finding out any more about James Williams, his father according to the marriage certificate is John Williams occupation "sweep". The 2 witnesses were both Glaziers. I cannot find him on the 1871 census, he was a mariner. I have also tried looking for a newspaper entry locally of the marriage without success.

With such a popular name where do I look next? As I have not found him in any census records I cannot say what his place of birth was. Philadelphia turns up in Thanet, Kent in 1896 when she marries. Can anyone suggest what I should try next? Grateful for any suggestions.

[almach]

Hi Diamond,

Are you aware of these two possible siblings of Philadelphia?

WILLIAMS, ELIZABETH, MMN GLAZIER
GRO Reference: 1876 M Quarter in HASTINGS Volume 02B Page 14
WILLIAMS, EMMA, MMN GLAZIER
GRO Reference: 1877 S Quarter in HASTINGS Volume 02B Page 10

[almach]

Another possible sibling.

WILLIAMS, JOSEPH, MMN GLAZIER
GRO Reference: 1879 J Quarter in HASTINGS Volume 02B Page 16

[almach]

I wonder if they are calling themselves BROWN in 1881?

1881, Church St, Ore, Hastings. RG11; Piece: 1021; Folio: 46; Page: 52
Joseph Brown 27, Surrey unknown
Mary A. Brown 27, Sussex Guestling
Phillie Brown 7, Ore
Emma Brown 3, Ore
Joseph Brown 1, Ore

[almach]

Perhaps James Brown is a second husband??? ETA: should be JOSEPH

Joseph born Southampton, all other family Ore
1891, 48, Church St, Ore, RG12; Piece: 758; Folio: 93; Page: 39
Joseph Brown 37, fisherman
Mary Brown 37
Emma Brown 14
George Brown 10
Charlie Brown 7
Dinah Brown 5
Rose Brown 3
Flossie Brown 6/12

BROWN, DINAH, MMN GLAZIER
GRO Reference: 1885 D Quarter in HASTINGS Volume 02B Page 17

BROWN, ROSE AMELIA, MMN GLAZIER
GRO Reference: 1888 S Quarter in HASTINGS Volume 02B Page 12

[almach]

Perhaps James Brown is a second husband???

ETA: As Dundee has pointed out he is JOSEPH not James

I'm doubting James Brown (ETA should say Joseph) is a second husband and think it possible James Williams was an alias.

In 1911 Joseph 57yrs, Mary 57yrs and their son Charley age 27yrs are in Bexhill Sussex, they are entered as married 38yrs which ties in with Mary's first marriage to James Williams, they've had 10 children, 7 are still living. Joseph is a fisherman born Southampton, Mary born Guesling and Charley born Ore.

[almach]

1871, Ore, RG10; Piece: 1027; Folio: 105; Page: 77
Charles Gibson 40, fisherman, Ore
Dinah Gibson 40, Guestling
Joseph Brown 15, son, fish hawker, Kingston Surrey
James Brown 14, son, Kingston Surrey
Phillis Brown 13, dau, Southampton
Elizabeth Brown 12, dau, Southampton
Thomas Brown 11, son, Southampton
Charles Gibson 2, son, Ore

[Dundee10]

Perhaps James Brown is a second husband???

His name is Joseph, not James.

[almach]

His name is Joseph, not James.

Yes, thank you There's too many James and Joseph's and I'm befuddled with them.

Diamond, perhaps I was right first time see #5 and Joseph Brown and James Williams are two different chaps. Mary perhaps didn't fully understand the question (1911 census) about how long she'd been married, didn't realise it related only to her present marriage to Joseph Brown.

Oh, I dunno, think I'm over tired, anyway see what you think to what's been found so far.

[almach]

If Mary Ann Glazier did marry for a 2nd time, obviously she'd be Williams then, here's a possible mariage

Mar qrt 1881, Hastings, 2b 53, Mary Ann Williams on the same page James Joseph Brown (here we go again with James and Joseph )