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  1. #1

    Default Thomas Kemble & Margaret ?

    I wonder whether anyone can help me with this marriage? The image of the parish records on Ancestry show that Thomas Kemble married Margaret (unreadable) on 18th Jan 1732 in Tewkesbury St Mary. Margaret's surname begins with H but the rest is invisible because it is hidden by the fold in the page.
    Peter Gibbs

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    You can also see the image on familysearch. If you click on Catalog, enter England, Gloucestershire, Tewkesbury and search, you should get a list of available documents. If you select Bishops Transcripts and go to page 471 the marriage is there at the bottom of the page.

    Mr Thomas Kemble and Mrs Margaret Hanbury.

    The Han is written in the same line as Margaret and the bury just above.

    This link may or may not work

    https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/...470&cat=320277

    Emeltee

  3. #3

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    Thanks very much Emeltee! I was really, really hoping it would be Holland because it would provide the link between the Kembles of Tewkesbury and Hollands of Mickleton that I've been searching for for ages. Ho, hum, the search goes on.
    Cheers
    Pete

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    She is down as Mrs Margaret Hanbury which implies she is a widow. Therefore Hanbury is her married name not her maiden name. You need to find a Hanbury male marrying a Margaret and then dying before 1732 in order to find her maiden name.

    Emeltee

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    Name well known on Brit-Gen janbooth's Avatar
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    Hello Pete,

    I, too, have the HOLLANDs of Mickleton in my tree and have a Thomas Kemble HOLLAND, born c1767 at Weston Subedge, son of David Hughes HOLLAND and his 2nd wife Jane STOKES - do these people fit into your tree anywhere? However, as the connection to my line is Mary Eleanor Hughes HOLLAND, the daughter of said David and his first wife Mary ASHWIN, she having married my 5th great uncle William FREEMAN. I haven't really investigated either the ancestors of Jane STOKES or those of Mary ASHWIN in any depth. I might have to develop these two lines further now! However, as Thomas KEMBLE was referred to as Mr in the parish registers, it could be that Mrs is the shortened form of Mistress which is often used by incumbents to denote gentry.

    Janet
    Impatience can be a virtue - honestly!

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    Name well known on Brit-Gen janbooth's Avatar
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    Just found a bit more information which may provide a link, certainly to my Thomas Kemble HOLLAND mentioned above, in that Thomas KEMBLE of Tewkesbury, he who married Margaret HANBURY, left a PCC Will dated 2 March 1770 and proved at London on 7 March 1776, in which he mentions a Mrs Mary STOKES of Cheltenham, widow. David Hughes HOLLAND married Jane STOKES at Cheltenham on 16 October 1766, so I wonder what the STOKES connection is to Thomas KEMBLE of Tewkesbury. Margaret KEMBLE, widow, also left a PCC Will proved 15 August 1800, both Wills being available to view via Ancestry. Mrs Jane HOLLAND, widow, was buried at Cheltenham on 10 October 1784.

    The Gloucestershire Will of Mary STOKES of Cheltenham, proved in 1779, is also available to view on Ancestry and she is indeed the mother of Jane HOLLAND. But Bigland's Monumental Inscriptions of Cheltenham show that Mary, who died 7 January 1778, aged 75, was the wife of Rev. George STOKES and daughter of Edward MITCHELL who was apparently married to a Mary COOPER sister of Samuel COOPER. Gent. So no link that I can see via that line at first glance. More research needed!

    Janet
    Impatience can be a virtue - honestly!

  7. #7

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    Thanks to everyone who contributed to my query. It is not my tree that I'm investigating, but my wife's. Kemble is used as a middle name in all but one of her paternal ancestors since 1767. Her parents also used it as a middle name for one of her brothers. Her family asked me if I could discover why. Often, this convention is to honour a mother's or grandmother's family, but at the moment I can find no such link. Thomas and Margaret (Hanbury) Kemble were witnesses to the marriage of David Hughes Holland and Jane Stokes (my wife's ancestors, one of whose sons was Thomas Kemble Holland). Having so far found no connection by marriage between Holland or Stokes and Kemble, my thought is that it was a Godparent/Godchild thing, perhaps expecting that the Godparent would especially consider the financial welfare of the child as well as the other responsibilities. The Kembles and Hollands were gentry, which might explain the use of Mr/Mrs in the record of Thomas and Margaret's marriage, though I will not overlook the possibility that Margaret was a widow. The Kembles had lived in Fiddington manor since 1707, while both John Holland and his son David Hughes were recorded as Gent. in guardianship and burial records.

    However, I have found a marriage between Kemble and Mitchell. Edward Mitchell, a grandfather of Jane Stokes, married four times, and had children with all but his last wife. Elizabeth Mitchell, a daughter of his first marriage to Ann Carter, married Thomas Kemble, the father of the Thomas who married Margaret Hanbury. Jane Mitchell, a daughter of Edward and his third wife Mary, married Rev. George Stokes, and their daughter Jane married David Hughes Holland. This means that Thomas and Elizabeth (Mitchell) Kemble were the uncle and aunt of Jane Stokes and David Hughes Holland, and Thomas and Margaret (Hanbury) Kemble were their 1st cousins. Maybe this is a close enough relationship for the Hollands to honour the Kemble family - I know very little about such conventions - so maybe I need look no further.
    Any thoughts would be most welcome.

    Pete

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    Name well known on Brit-Gen janbooth's Avatar
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    It certainly is possible, Pete, and we know from Thomas KEMBLE jnr's Will that he left a small legacy to his aunt Mary STOKES so it is likely that the families were in contact. So far, I haven't found any other connection between the HOLLAND and KEMBLE familes, but your post has kick-started me into looking into the wives of David Hughes HOLLAND, so will carry on investigating and if I find any other link will post it on the Forum.

    Janet
    Impatience can be a virtue - honestly!

  9. #9

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    Thanks Janet

    I'll carry on investigating too. Every time I think I'm done, and am about to email my findings to my wife's family all around the world, I find something new that requires additions to the document, and occasionally a removal (whoops!). The job never ends!
    In my last post I mentioned that the Kembles lived in Fiddington Manor since 1707. I realised afterwards that I didn't actually know whether they lived in it or not. In fact, the Kembles and descendants had the mortgage of the manor from 1707 to around 1803 i.e. they were in possession of it. Since the early 1500s, the Kembles leased a small, nearby, estate from Brasenose College, Oxford, and they may well have lived on that land. British History online has a fair bit about it.

    Pete

  10. #10

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    I have written about the Kemble - Holland connection on my blog
    http://sheafancestors.blogspot.com.a...heltenham.html and
    http://sheafancestors.blogspot.com.a...rends-wife.htm

    It has been a very interesting research conundrum and I am pleased that some more accurate information is starting to be circulated about the origin of the Kemble name in the holland family. One mystery that hasn't been solved though is just what was the name of the Ann who married John Holland of Mickleton in about 1688!

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