John Gadsden father of Harriet Emma Gadsden

[Taylor1950]

I am having difficulty with my great grandmother, Harriet Emma Gadsden's ( b 04/04/1855) father. Baptism shows her father as John Gadsden and the 1861 census shows her living at 7 Western Cottages in Fulham with her parents John and Harriet (shows Garden, not Gadsden), plus siblings. Johns profession is shown as greengrocer on that census plus 1871 and 1881. Everything seems to tie in with my little knowledge of family history, until I obtained Harriet Emma Gadsdens marriage certificate to Walter Edward Groom. The father is shown as John Gadsden - Profession 'Tailor'. I have searched for another John Gadsden, tailor, without success. Any ideas?
Thank you.

[Peter Goodey]

When and where was the baptism?

What does the birth certificate say?

[Pamelawagster]

Harriet Emma Gadsden

1855 J Quarter in KENSINGTON

Volume 01A Page 105

MMN Brown

[Taylor1950]

Baptised St Pauls, Hammersmith, Middx 29 April 1855. Birth date shown as 4 April 1855. Realise I may have to get birth cert. Cannot seem to access actual pages of baptism records.

[Pamelawagster]

John Gadsden married Harriet Brown

Harriett Brown
Spouse: John Gadsden
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 29 Nov 1852
Parish: St Mary, Paddington Green
Borough: Westminster
Father Name: James Brown
Spouse Father: Jeffrey Gadsden

Cert is on Ancestry. John's occupation - Coachman


1851 census John is a groom.

[Taylor1950]

Thanks for help

[helachau]

Can find John and Harriet in the '71 and '81 Census - but Harriet not with them on either. Have you found her in '71 or '81? . She was married after the '81 Census taken.
Was she married from "home" ie.John's and Harriets? Who were the witnesses?

There have been instances of the father's occupations being transposed - but I imagine you'd have spotted if the groom's father was recorded as greengrocer (think he might have been a bricklayer?).

Wondered if Harriet and family were somehow estranged?

[Peter Goodey]

Cannot seem to access actual pages of baptism records.

Probably because 1855 isn't included in Ancestry's collection. Family Search isn't good enough - no home address or father's occupation.

Since you only live in Epsom , you might fancy popping up to LMA and looking at the original record in the register.

Realise I may have to get birth cert

As it's your direct line, I wouldn't look on it as optional.

[Taylor1950]

The marriage cert shows place of residence for both Harriet Emma Gadsden and Walter Edward Groom (plumber) as Black's Road. They were married at St Pauls, Hammersmith. I tried to find the address without success. The witnesses were John Gadsden (assume her father) and Ellen Knight. The grooms father John Groom was a piano forte tuner. Like you I cannot find her as Harriet Emma Groom in '71 or'81 census. Think unlikely they moved away from immediate area as 1891 census indicates their children were born in either Turnham Green (abt 1883), Hammersmith (around 1884-6) or Fulham 1891. Think I must visit LMA or get birth cert to be certain. Looking at various census forms I did notice someone unconnected with my family describe themselves as a 'retailer'. Just wonder if John Gadsden described himself as a retailer (greengrocer) as it sounded good against a piano forte tuner and the vicar misheard!

[Taylor1950]

Thanks for your help. New to this and any advice most welcome. Looks like a visit to LMA.