Robert Howard

[swendeperle82]

Just trying to work out if I have found just the one person or 2 different people.
I'very been looking for records of my 3rd gt grandfather Edmund Howard b. 1831 Spitalfields and found a baptism record stating that his father was Robert Howard, shoemaker and his mother Sarah Eleanora. I found a marriage banns record for Robert and Sarah from 1829 in Stepney.
Looking at other baptism records it appears they had the following children:
Robert 1830 Palmer Street
Edmund 1831 Palmer Street
William 1833 Palmer Street
Sarah Elizabeth 1839 New Ct, Fashion St
Ann 1841 Little Paternoster Row

William died in 1838 New Ct, Fashion St where his sister was born the following year.

In the 1841 census I found a Robert Howard, cordwainer, living in Paternoster Row with Henry 20, John 14 and Edmund 9, presumably all his sons and Ann Spreckley. Edmund fit but I couldn't find any records for the other two.
He's aged 60 on the census so I wondered if he was maybe Edmund's grandfather rather than father but can't find any proof of this.

Anyway I looked for a death record and found one for 1843 along with a extract from his will which had his address as Paternoster Row and occupation as bookmaker. It mentioned 3 grown up daughters (Sarah, Mary and Susannah) a sister, a brother and an illegitimate son (John Spreckley) and his mother (Ann Spreckley housekeeper).

I don't understand though why he didn't mention his other children in his will so I thought maybe I had the wrong Robert Howard so had another look at the census. I found Robert, Sarah and Ann living with there mother on Paternoster Row. It appears she was running a Chandler's Shop.

Now assuming that all this info does point to the same person...why wasn't he living with his wife and children? Why didn't any of them get a mention in his will? And who are these older children of his? I thought perhaps he'd been married before but the married banns record says he's a bachelor. So this brings me back to the grandfather of Edmund theory.
Also his illegitimate son John Spreckley was born in Paternoster Row so why was Robert moving back and forth so often?

Apologies for the length of this post!

[almach]

In the 1841 census I found a Robert Howard, cordwainer, living in Paternoster Row with Henry 20, John 14 and Edmund 9, presumably all his sons and Ann Spreckley. Edmund fit but I couldn't find any records for the other two

Spitalfields Christ Church with St Mary and St Stephen, 25 May 1828
John Howard son of Ann and Robert Howard (shoemaker) Little Paternoster Row

According to the 1841 census Robert and Henry weren't born in the county (Middlesex).

[almach]

It's getting too complicated for this late hour Perhaps someone else will pick up the thread later.

Is this Sarah with her children in 1851?

Brook St Stepney, HO107; Piece: 1551; Folio: 65; Page: 13
Sarah Howard 45, wife, tailoress, Spitalfields
Robert Howard 21, son, shoemaker, Spitalfields
Edward Howard 19, son, shoemaker, Spitalfields
Sarah Howard 12, dau, Spitalfields
Mary A Parker 7, dau, St George Middlesex
John Parkis [sic] 5, son, St George Middlesex

If the above is your Sarah I doubt she was the wife of Robert aged 60 in 1841, if he had grown up children when he died in 1843 I think Sarah would have been too young to be their mother, unless Sarah was his second wife, but on her marriage entry it says Robert was a bachelor.

[swendeperle82]

Anyway I looked for a death record and found one for 1843 along with a extract from his will which had his address as Paternoster Row and occupation as bookmaker.

That's supposed to be bootmaker, not bookmaker

[swendeperle82]

If the above is your Sarah I doubt she was the wife of Robert aged 60 in 1841, if he had grown up children when he died in 1843 I think Sarah would have been too young to be their mother, unless Sarah was his second wife, but on her marriage entry it says Robert was a bachelor.

Yes it's these 3 older children that have confused me as according to the marriage record he was not married previously. The only other explanations are that they were all illegitimate or Robert Howard aged 60 is not the one I'm looking for. Annoyingly, I can't seem to find another Robert Howard that fits.

[almach]

Annoyingly, I can't seem to find another Robert Howard that fits.

You need to be looking outside London, as Robert and Henry (1841) were not born in Middlesex, so could have been born in any English county. Try to find Henry in later census to see where he was born.

[janbooth]

Henry may not have been the son of Robert HOWARD as no relationships are shown in the 1841 census. As regards the 1851 census that Alma has found above, there is a marriage at St Dunstan's Stepney on 31 October 1842 for a William PERKISS (signed PURKISS), bachelor, Shoemaker, & Sarah Honora HOWARD, widow. Her father is shown as a John BOWEN, Portrait Painter. It is interesting that one of the people living with Robert HOWARD et al in the 1841 census at Paternoster Row is a Willm PURCAS who is a Cordwainer!

Robert HOWARD married Sarah Honora BOWEN at Stepney in 1829 as you have already stated, so it is all beginning to tie together isn't it. However, how she managed to marry William PURKISS in 1842 when Robert was not buried until 12 October 1843, aged 62, is a bit of a mystery!

Janet

[almach]

However, how she managed to marry William PURKISS in 1842 when Robert was not buried until 12 October 1843, aged 62, is a bit of a mystery!

Or, maybe not a mystery Janet, if as I suspected and mentioned by swendeperle Sarah Bowen's first husband was Robert, son of Robert (1841 census).

[swendeperle82]

But where is this elusive Robert son of Robert? I wish it wasn't such a common name ��

[janbooth]

Well, there is a death registration in the September qtr 1840 at Stepney reg district for a Robert HOWARD which is in the correct area and about the correct date but I cannot find a burial for him at Christchurch, Spitalfields between middle of June 1840 and middle of October 1840 plus the fact that daughter Ann was baptised on 23 May 1841 at Christchurch, Spitalfields, as the daughter of Robert & Sarah HOWARD, Little Paternoster Row, Bootmaker. Not conclusive he was still alive then, I know, but I still have not managed to find a burial record for him with any certainty so far.

Susan HOWARD daughter of Robert (senr?) married Richard John BREWER at St Dunstan, Stepney on 3 June 1838. Both were of full age, she was living at 14 Paternoster Row and her father was Robert HOWARD, Shoemaker. Witnesses: Robert HOWARD & Mary HOWARD. Possible baptism at City of London Lying in Hospital, Finsbury, on 28 May 1815 of Susan HOWARD, daughter of Robert & Honora HOWARD, Flying Hospital Yard, Moorfields, Bootmaker. However, looking at the 1851 census of St Ann, Blackfriars (HO107/1528, folio 104, page 13), it shows Susan as born c1818 in Liverpool & Richard as born c1819 in Spitalfields. Following on from that 1851 census information, there is a baptism at St Mary RC Church, Liverpool, on 4 March (born 7 February) 1817 of Susanna daughter of Robert & Honor HOWARD.

Daughter Mary HOWARD married William GIBBS at St Giles without Cripplegate on 20 January 1833 and one of the witnesses was Robert HOWARD. Can't find a baptism for her with any certainty so far.

Daughter Sarah HOWARD married Henry OLIVER at Tideswell, Derbyshire on 19 May 1833. There is a baptism on 25 October 1807 (born 15 September) at Christchurch, Spitalfields, for a Sarah daughter of Robert HOWARD, Bootmaker, Paternoster Row, by Sarah his wife.

At the moment I am getting more confused by the minute so will give you this information and let my brain unscramble a bit before I come back to it once more.

Janet