Marriage records

[mamagoose]

I live in the states and I am trying to build my fathers paternal side of the tree. I am looking for a marriage certificate for my 2nd great grandmother Mary Roberts. She was born 1865 in Wales and passed in 1948 in Lancashire, England. She married a John Thomas born 1862 in St Helens, Lancashire. She was also married to a Joseph Gibbons born 1861 in Prescot, Lancashire. Any help would be appreciated.

[almach]

1911, 1 North Rd St Helens. RG14; Piece: 22764
Joseph Gibbons 49
Mary Gibbons 46, married 13yrs, born Bodedon, Anglesey, Wales
Grifith Thomas 22
Catherine Thomas 19
Alfred Thomas 17
John Thomas 15
Joseph Gibbons 12
James Gibbons 11
Thomas Gibbons 9
Mary Gibbons 5
Gwendoline Gibbons 4

Marriages Jun 1898, Prescot, vol 8b, page 1219
Joseph Gibbons/Mary Thomas
The certificate can be ordered here: https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/

[mamagoose]

Oh thats it..perfect and thank you. Griffith Thomas was my great grandfather. Thanks again.

[almach]

I live in the states and I am trying to build my fathers paternal side of the tree. I am looking for a marriage certificate for my 2nd great grandmother Mary Roberts. She was born 1865 in Wales and passed in 1948 in Lancashire, England. She married a John Thomas born 1862 in St Helens, Lancashire. She was also married to a Joseph Gibbons born 1861 in Prescot, Lancashire. Any help would be appreciated.

How certain are you of John Thomas' place and year of birth, I ask as this seems to be your family. Do you know if Griffith was in fact Edward Griffith?

1891,St Helens. RG12; Piece: 3019; Folio: 12; Page: 17
John Thomas 37, Flint Flintshire (Wales)
Mary Thomas 26, Holyhead, Anglesey
Griffith Thomas 1, St Helens

Birth registration
THOMAS, EDWARD GRIFFITH, Mother's maiden name ROBERTS
GRO Reference: 1889 D Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 685

[mamagoose]

Im only going by census records found on ancestry for an approx date of birth.

[mamagoose]

The Edward Griffith name has been passed down to my father who is John Edward Griffith Thomas

[Megan Roberts]

If you look at the 1901 Census you will see that Mary had another son, Richard Thomas born about 1885 in Wales. A search of the GRO index reveals that there were 4 birth registrations that could fit:

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
THOMAS, RICHARD ROBERTS
GRO Reference: 1884 J Quarter in MERTHYR TYDFIL Volume 11A Page 501
THOMAS, RICHARD ROBERTS
GRO Reference: 1886 J Quarter in FESTINIOG Volume 11B Page 417
THOMAS, RICHARD ROBERTS
GRO Reference: 1887 M Quarter in LLANRWST UNION Volume 11B Page 319
THOMAS, RICHARD GRIFFITH ROBERTS
GRO Reference: 1885 S Quarter in CARNARVON Volume 11B Page 433
THOMAS, RICHARD ROBERTS ROBERTS
GRO Reference: 1885 S Quarter in ANGLESEY Volume 11B Page 509

The first one is unlikely because that is South Wales. The most likely is the fourth one. You can order certificates speculatively, and get your money back if you are wrong, if you specify the parents’ names when ordering. The reason for ordering this one is that I am speculating that Mary may have gone home to have her baby, and then that would tell you where her parents lived. Of course another interesting question is where was Richard Thomas in the 1891 census, as he was not with his parents?

There is a death registration of a 40 year old John Thomas in Prescot in 1893 – Volume 08B Page 581, which may well be Griffith’s father.

There is a possible marriage in the Jul quarter of 1885 in Ruthin, Denbighshire (near Flint) between John Edward Thomas and one of Mary Roberts or Mary Hughes – Volume 11b Page 405. You can order up a certificate on the basis that you only want it if the bride is Mary Roberts.


Whilst you have to pay upfront for the certificates (£9.50), providing you have specified the criteria that you are looking for, you will get an instant refund if the certificate you have asked for does not match the criteria you have specified. However, there is a balance to be struck, because if you specify for instance that the mother’s name must be “Elizabeth Mary” and it’s actually recorded as “Lizzie Mary” you will probably get a refund.

[Pamelawagster]

Name: Mary Jones
[Mary Roberts]
Age: 23
Marriage Date: 4 Feb 1889
Father: Griffith Roberts
Spouse: John Thomas

Marraige was in Holy Trinity Church,Ashton on Makerfield, Lancashire.Not sure why the names Jones but there is the name Roberts also on the transcription.

Mary's address was Old Gasworks Hall Farm.

Griffith Roberts was stated deceased, Jockey.

An image of the cert is available to view on Ancestry.

[Megan Roberts]

Name: Mary Jones
[Mary Roberts]
Age: 23
Marriage Date: 4 Feb 1889
Father: Griffith Roberts
Spouse: John Thomas

Marraige was in Holy Trinity Church,Ashton on Makerfield, Lancashire.Not sure why the names Jones but there is the name Roberts also on the transcription.

Mary's address was Old Gasworks Hall Farm.

Griffith Roberts was stated deceased, Jockey.

An image of the cert is available to view on Ancestry.

What a puzzle!

I think that this marriage is potentially correct as is the one that I found in Ruthin. I like the one in Ruthin because it has "Edward" in his name, which seems to crop up in your family, however, this one equally includes "Griffith".

I think the "confusion" over her surname is because she was either (a) illegitimate but knew who her father was, or (b) orphaned and unofficially adopted by the Jones family and took their surname; this happened with a great-aunt of mine and her marriage certificate looks almost the same, except that there is no crossing out of names.

I still think that it would be worth "mamagoose" ordering up the Ruthin marriage certificate, because with Welsh surnames (as I know to my own despair) it is hard work, and you have to eliminate possibilities.

[Ladkyis]

The Roberts surname in North Wales is particularly difficult. I remember when the 1881 census came out on CD (ah, back in the old days LOL) and I searched for my son-in-laws Grandfather, David Roberts. I put the name into the search and there were 1976 hits on Anglesey alone, I reduced that to triple figures by specifying age but it was a bit of an eye opener.

I do feel for you in your search