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  1. #11
    janbooth
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    Just to clarify what Pamela has posted above, the 1881 census of Hallilwell, Lancashire (ref RG11/3824, folio 103, page 31) shows the following:

    Thomas MURPHY Head Mar 26 Factory Warehouseman Bedford Lancashire
    Catherine do Wife Mar 28 do wife Ireland
    William do Son Un 7 Scholar Hindley Lancashire
    James do Son 2 Bolton do
    Thomas do Son 3 months do do

    The GRO Index shows that the birth of William was registered in the September qtr 1874 at Wigan reg district, mother's maiden name McKAY & that of James in the June qtr 1878 at Bolton reg district, mother's maiden name McKAY.

    1891 census shows the family living at Rumworth, Lancashire, with the addition of a son John born c1885 at Bolton. However, in this census Thomas MURPHY snr is shown as born c1855 at Bedford, Leigh, Lancashire. There is a birth registration at Leigh in the September qtr 1853 of a Thomas MURPHY, mother's maiden name CAIN, which would appear to be a likely match for your Thomas.

    1861 census of Hindley, Lancashire (RG9/2778, folio 50, page 5) shows the following family living at Chapel Green:

    Martin MURPHY Head Mar 46 Collier & Labourer Ireland
    Mary do Wife Mar 44 do
    William do Son 15 Drawer in Coal Pit do
    Margaret do Daur 13 Piecer in Cotton Mill Lancashire Leigh
    James do Son 11 Driver in Coal Pit do do
    Thomas do Son 9 do Bedford

    Daughter Margaret's birth registration shows her mother's maiden name as KEAM and James' birth registration shows mother's maiden name as CAIN.

    Hope this helps.

    Janet

  2. #12
    BernieFD
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    Janet , thank you I will try and sort it out with the info you have sent and the family details I have. The birth of William in 1874 confirms lines up with what we have got from family details. Is there any record of the marriage of Thomas and Catherine which I guess may have been circa 1872? I will get back to you later.

    Regards BernieFD,

  3. #13
    Dundee10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BernieFD View Post
    Thomas Murphy (above) had a brother William who was my wife's grandfather and who married Sarah Evelyn Heyes
    Quote Originally Posted by BernieFD View Post
    Further to post 6 and the reply that William is the son of Thomas I believe from other family information that Thomas and William were in fact brothers
    You are getting yourself confused with your Thomas's. The Thomas who married Catherine McKAY was born c1855 and he was the FATHER of William born in 1874. William went on to marry Sarah Evelyn HEYES Iin 1896.

    William did have a brother named Thomas but he was born in 1880 (see Janet's post of the 1881 census in reply #11).

    In 1911 the brother Thomas was a Grocer, unmarried and living alone at 24 Mooney Street, Bolton.

    You can search for marriages here https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

  4. #14
    BernieFD
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    Hi Dundee10 , thank you for your post. Yes it is confusing . I think k some of the information we got from family members years ago was slightly incorrect. .I will update our data base from the information you and Janet have provided.
    I have tried to search for the marriage but can't seem to open the link from here. Is it possible that one of the researchers could investigate this please?
    Looking forward to getting some more excellent advice from the forum.
    Kind Regards , BernieFD , Australia.

  5. #15
    BernieFD
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    HI again ,I did manage to open the link and found the marriage of Thomas and Catherine in 1874. in Bolton.
    Do marriage certificates in UK show the names of the parents of the bride and groom, they do in Australia?.
    I would really to find their parents names.
    In Janet's last post she said the probable mother of Thomas , born c1855 was Cain .
    Would the marriage certificate show this and/or the birth certificate show the father's and mother's names?

    It is such a long way down here to get access to BMD records and I an really grateful for all the help from the Forum

    Now I will try and update my data base with al the information I have received from the Forum recently and look forward to hearing more from them in future,
    Kind regards, BernieFD Australia.
    Last edited by BernieFD; 15-05-2017 at 1:33 AM. Reason: adjust paragraphs

  6. #16
    janbooth
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    Bernie,

    UK marriage certificates only show the fathers of both parties and their professions at the time of the marriage.

    There is a bit more information in the 1851 census of Leigh, Pennington, Lancashire (HO107/2205, folio 100, page 29) where the family are living at Gas Street:

    Martin MURPHY Head Mar 28 (Agr) Labourer Ireland
    Mary do Wife Mar 35? do
    William do Son 5 do
    Margaret do Daur 3 Lancs Pennington
    Ann do Daur 1 do do
    John do Brother Un 16 Servt Ireland

    Still no place names in Ireland given, but we now know that Martin MURPHY has a brother John. Ah, a bit more help given in the 1871 census of Hindley, Lancashire, where it states that Martin MURPHY was born in Tipperary as was wife Mary.

    Bingo! FindmyPast has the Catholic marriage register image of Martin MURPHY & Mary KEANE at Templemore, Cashel & Emly, Tipperary in 1844 plus the baptism of son William in 1846 at Templemore. Can't give you full details because of their terms & conditions. However, Ancestry has the same set of records & William MURPHY was baptised on 1 June 1846 at Templemore, parents Martin MURPHY & Mary KEANE, sponsors being William & Mary MURPHY. Ancestry also has the register image of the baptism of Martinus MURPHY at Tipperary on 13 November 1823 plus several baptisms for a Mary/Maria KEANE but there is one in Cashel & Emly in 1819.

    Hope this puts a bit more "flesh on the bones" for you.

    Janet

  7. #17
    BernieFD
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    Janet , thank you , I think we are spoiled in Australia as we get a lot more information on our various B. M. D. certificates.. I think the information you sent to me on post 11 for the family of Thomas Murphy, Wife, Catherine and children is the family we are researching as the information in that post is the one that links up with the family information we have here .

    I am so grateful to you and all the other researchers who have spent so much time and effort to help my wife and myself to fill in the gaps we were missing. I spent most of today updating our data base and my wife has lots of old family photographs that she can now put names to. My wife, Eileen, comes from Lancashire and is familiar with most of the names around Bolton, Bedford, Wigan etc .that are mentioned in the post , in fact she had cycled around many of them when she lived there in Blackpool and Bolton.

    Once again, thank you, and I am sure I will have some more queries in the future as more names crop up,
    Kind regards , Bernie , Australia.

  8. #18
    janbooth
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    Glad to be of help and good luck with your MURPHY research.

    Janet

  9. #19
    BernieFD
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    Hi Janet, it's Bernie from Australia again, and your last couple of posts #11, and #16 prompt me to ask , is it possible to get the Father's name of Thomas , born c 1855 ,( he was 26 in the 1881 census #11, ) either from his marriage certificate,. (Married to Catherine McKay 1874,) , or from his birth certificate?.

    If we are lucky enough to get it then possibly we might be able to get his marriage , which may have taken place c 1845-1854.
    as in # 11 you suggested a possible mother for Thomas (B c1855) was" Cain "

    A side comment , you may remember I was interested in the Donnelly family in Lisburn Northern Ireland , well good news . I did write to them and they have contacted me and will do some research for me !!!

    Looking forward to hearing from you ,
    Kind Regards, Bernie

    Hope I am not putting you to too much trouble , but appreciate all your help so far.

  10. #20
    janbooth
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    Great result on your DONNELLY family. The marriage certificate of Thomas & Catherine will give you the name & profession of both their fathers. The birth certificate of Thomas will then give you his father's name & profession and his mother's maiden name. If Thomas's marriage certificate, which is definitely the first certificate to purchase, shows that his father is Martin MURPHY then I think we have cracked it as per the information in posts 11 & 16.

    Janet

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