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  1. #1
    fpegrum
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    Default Where is this church & it's registers?

    I have a marriage certificate for George Augustus KINNAIRD and Louisa REYNOLDS dated May 10 1863. The marriage took place at St Luke's church in the Parish of Saint Pancras.

    Where is this church? The only one that I can find reference to is St Luke, Oseney Crescent, Kentish Town. Is this the one? Were there other St Luke's in the Saint Pancras parish? And if this is the church, where can I find the records?

    Any answers/suggestions gratefully received.

    Thanks

    Fiona

  2. #2
    Mythology
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    I am scratching my head here and hoping that 1863 is a typo, because if not then we appear to have a problem - can you confirm the date, please?

  3. #3
    fpegrum
    Guest

    Default Where is this church & it's registers?

    The certificate reads:

    1863 Marriage soleminized at S.Luke's Church in the Parish of Saint Pancras in the County of Middlesex. The date is given as May 10 and the signatory is C.K. Andrews. The entry number is 156.

    Does any of that help?

    Thanks.

    Fiona

  4. #4
    Mythology
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    I'm hoping that it will - I'm not sure that we'll find the answer, but you've saved me typing a few more questions, thank you!

    "The only one that I can find reference to is St Luke, Oseney Crescent, Kentish Town. Is this the one?"
    I would have said "Yes" except for one thing - St Luke, Oseney Crescent, does not seem to have been there in 1863. The registers are at the London Metropolitan Archives, with baptisms starting in December 1869 and marriages in 1870.
    This ties in with South Camden Deanery web page which states St Luke, Oseney Crescent, was "Designed by Basil Champneys and built in 1867-9 of red Suffolk brick with stone dressings in a c13 style. It is now used as an artists studio."

    However, if there is another St Luke which existed in St Pancras in 1863, then I have never come across it and, like you, I am unable to find any reference to it.

    Unless anyone else knows the definite answer, I will have to do some prodding around at the LMA and see if I can track it down from the parish notes rather than just the catalogue.

    Speculation, but it is, for example, possible that a smaller building existed in 1863, and did not have its own register. An entry number of 156 does not sound unreasonable for the St John the Baptist, Kentish Town Road, marriage register starting in January 1859, so the earlier marriages at our mysterious St Luke *may* be in that.

    Unfortunately, it is also possible that a smaller building existed in 1863 which had its own register, but that register has been lost.

  5. #5
    fpegrum
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    Thankyou for your response - would it make any difference if the bride and groom were noted as being in residence at King's Cross at the time of marriage?

  6. #6
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change.
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    I've just checked in my London 1856 Post Office Directory which I obtained from a marvellous little company

    and it lists the following St Luke churches, none of whom unfortunately have a C. K. Andrews listed as clergy.
    1. Between 95 and 100 Berwick Street Soho
    2. Clapham Old town
    3. Nutford Place
    4. Between 97 and 98 Old Street
    5. Robert Street Chelsea.
    and one listed as St Luke Chelsea Old church in Church Street Chelsea.
    Though another St Lukes church could have been built between the publication of that directory and 1863.

    There is a Nutford Place in existence today, just off Edgware Road. And of course, after just typing out that lot, I've remembered that there is a list of Victorian churches at
    https://www.gendocs.demon.co.uk/coe.html#HOME

    What may or not be of further help, is that on the 1861 census, Charles (looks more like an H, though the enumerator could have written this incorrectly) Andrews at
    RG9/104 folio 117 page 40 has his occupation listed as 'Incumbent of St Lukes Kings Cross'. I think his address is 25 Hunter Street, and the parish is St Pancras.

    The next directory I have is the London Post Office 1902 and is not really any more help in precisely locating St Lukes. The ones in Berwick Street and Old Street are still there; as are the Chelsea ones in Sydney Street and Redcliffe Gardens. Others in Deptford, Mile End Road, Bermondsey, Homerton, and Millwall. Nutford Place has Bryanston Square added to the address, and then there's Oseney Crescent Kentish Town, and two other Lukes in Westbourne Park and West Holloway.

    Should have looked at Charles Andrews' 1871 census entry before typing all that 1902 rubbish. Occupation 'Vicar of St Lukes Kentish Town'. (RG10/250 folio 40 page 37).

    Are you able to stop stratching now, Myth?

    Pam Downes

  7. #7
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change.
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    Rats. Just noticed that we've cross-posted. I'm obviously an even slower typist than Myth!
    Pam

  8. #8
    Mythology
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    "would it make any difference if the bride and groom were noted as being in residence at King's Cross"

    Well done - that's given me the answer without leaving home!

    I hadn't realised that the short-lived church which Brian Fisk lists as simply "Kings Cross - 1849-1868" was dedicated to St Luke. From memory, I think this one disappeared when they extended St Pancras railway station. Like a lot of things, it doesn't show up in its own right in the London Metropolitan Archives pathetic "London Generations" database if we do as instructed and put in "1863" and "SAINT LUKE" .....

    .... but if we put in "CHRIST CHURCH, SOMERS TOWN" and, as that wasn't there until 1868, don't use 1863, try a range of years like 1868-1870, what do we find?

    1869 Jan - 1870 Feb X081/006 (That's the microfilm number)
    CHRIST CHURCH, SOMERS TOWN, CHALTON STREET, CAMDEN ("Camden" because they go by the modern London Borough")
    and the description footnote says:
    Register of marriages, including St Luke, King's Cross 1861-1868, and at Christ Church 1868-1868

    It's the same with the baptisms - they are in with Christ Church Somers Town on film X081/004.

    Mystery solved - and I've learned something in the process.

  9. #9
    Mythology
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    "1861 census, Charles (looks more like an H, though the enumerator could have written this incorrectly) Andrews at
    RG9/104 folio 117 page 40 has his occupation listed as 'Incumbent of St Lukes Kings Cross'. I think his address is 25 Hunter Street, and the parish is St Pancras"

    Thanks, Pam - you and I were obviously thinking on the same lines, if nothing in the parish notes, try and track it down by Mr Andrews, and if I'd seen your message instead of dashing off and rummaging as soon as I saw the words "Kings Cross" in Fiona's message, that would have given it to me!

  10. #10
    Super Moderator - Completely bonkers and will never change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mythology
    ..... if I'd seen your message instead of dashing off and rummaging as soon as I saw the words "Kings Cross" in Fiona's message, that would have given it to me!
    Sorry I was such a slow typist Myth. But I think you were a genius to track it down like you did.
    Pam Downes

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