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  1. #21
    Name well known on Brit-Gen
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    I too an back home from another country....North Wales this is only a 3 hour journey with a 40 min 'pit stop' and after struggling on a tablet!

    Edgar b 1877 seems to have adopted his 'partner's surname. The birth entry for Gladys May the eldest child shown on the 1911 census sheet is as follows:

    PAYNE, GLADYS MAY
    MMN - HOLTON
    GRO Reference: 1897 S Quarter in WELLINGBOROUGH Volume 03B Page 144

    In 1901 Gladys is living with her HOLTON grandparents John b 1850 Dallington, Northamptonshire RG13; Piece: 1425; Folio: 85; Page: 12

    The next child on the 1911 census, Annie looks like she is Edgar LAY's child
    PAYNE, ANNIE ELSIE LAY
    MMN -HOLTON
    GRO Reference: 1902 S Quarter in LEEDS Volume 09B Page572

    Edgar's sibling can all be found married between 1918 - 1928 children should be traceable as the mothers maiden name is shown after 1911
    on www.freebmd.org.uk

    Marriages Jun 1897
    Ann Holton married
    Payne Henry Northampton 3b 206
    Henry PAYNE looks as if he is back with his mother by 1911 at 32 St Andrews Street Northampton

    Edgar LAY desc as ill grandson, birth entry
    LAY, EDGAR
    MMN -
    GRO Reference: 1877 M Quarter in LEICESTER Volume 07A Page 244

    Ella Clementina LAY married James Russell q3 1877 Leicester

    I agree it is likely that Ella maybe his mother the birth certificate will confirm this,

    Think you and Hilary need to 'digest' this before I look further.

    Jean

  2. #22

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    It seems his mother is the lady named below whose name changes from census to census and record to record, what her actual name is I'll leave you to decide

    Baptism July 2nd 1879, Leicester.
    Edgar Lay, mother Selina Lay, factory hand.

    1861 Louisa age 2, RG 9; Piece: 2204; Folio: 69; Page: 4
    1871 Selenor age 13, RG10; Piece: 3290; Folio: 61; Page: 11
    1881, Selina age 22, RG11; Piece: 3179; Folio: 44; Page: 20

    Selina/Louisa/Selenor/Lavinia, or whatever her real name is marries in 1883.

    Marriages Dec 1883, Leicester, 7a 482
    John Hales and on the same page is Lavinia Lay.
    Married Oct 17 1883, John Hales a widower, father John, Lavinia a spinster, father Peter. James Russell was a witness (husband of her sister, Ella Clementina?)

    She is entered with different names on these census returns, (I wonder was she confused as I certainly am!)

    1891,Black Friars Leicester. RG12; Piece: 2542; Folio: 41; Page: 21;
    John Hales 34, shoe caster, Leicester
    Lavonia Hales 32, worsted spinner, Coventry
    Henrietta Hales 11, Leicester
    Miriam Hales 7, Leicester
    Emma Hales 5, Leicester
    Sarah A Hales 1, Leicester

    1901,Leicester. RG13; Piece: 2989; Folio: 134; Page: 34
    Selina Hales 45, widow, factory hand
    Minnie Hales 19
    Emma Hales 15
    Sarah Hales 12

    And lastly her baptism
    Lavinia Lay, baptised 14 Nov 1858
    Coventry, Holy Trinity, Warwickshire, England
    Father: Peter Lay, Mother: Eliza Lay
    Alma

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Goodey View Post
    1901 Census RG13/2986 f 117 p 22

    Edgar Lay is with an Emma Lay and a son, Walter. In 1911, Emma is working as a housekeeper and Walter is with her.

    It looks as if Edgar did a runner from Emma, took up with Ann and changed his name to avoid various possible complications.
    I've just come across a family tree on Ancestry which I wish I'd found earlier as it would have saved me some time The tree (Payne_Johnston Family Tree) has Edgar's first marriage certificate to Emma Wilcox, details: Dec 26th 1897 at All Saints Church, Leicester. Edgar Lay 20rs, bachelor a shoe hand, 15, Court A, Northgate St, father William Lay (deceased) dyer. Emma Wilcox age 20yrs, spinster, factory hand, 15, Court A, Northgate St, father Henry Wilcox a shoe hand. One witness was Ada Alberta Harcourt, the other I cannot make out the surname John William ?????lington.

    The tree owner has made the comment "It is likely his father's name was invented to prevent embarrassment." And I agree.

    It is a comprehensive tree which appears to be well researched, has a photograph of Walter Payne born 1918, and some interesting family history. I suggest you take a look at it.
    Alma

  4. #24
    Knowledgeable and helpful
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    Jun 2013
    Location
    Parbold, Lancashire
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    Quote Originally Posted by almach View Post
    I cannot make out the surname John William ?????lington.
    TURLINGTON perhaps?

    A John William TURLINGTON married Mary Ann WILCOX, Leicester 1896 Q2 Vol 7A Page 429.

    Peter

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by elsinore View Post
    TURLINGTON perhaps?

    A John William TURLINGTON married Mary Ann WILCOX, Leicester 1896 Q2 Vol 7A Page 429.

    Peter
    Yes, that looks probable, Peter.
    Alma

  6. #26
    Name well known on Brit-Gen
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    May 2010
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    Cheshire UK
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    Edgar Lay married Emma Wilcox
    Registration Year: 1897
    Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
    Registration district: Leicester
    Volume: 7a Page: 422

    Mary Ann Wilcox ( Emma Wilcox's sister) married John William TURLINGTON

  7. #27
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    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Paeroa, New Zealand
    Posts
    651

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    Hi All

    Back home after a horrible drive from Wellington - of the 550kms drive over 450 was completed in torrential rain due to the remnants of yet another tropical cyclone. I'm surprised the windscreen wipers didn't stop working in protest at the continued used. Had to contend with some minor road flooding near Lake Taupo and then got delayed for 30 minutes due to a tree blocking a road with no detour available. Eight hours with a 30 minute lunch break. So glad to finally get into our house and finally flop down into bed. But we had a great trip and thoroughly enjoyed ourselves.

    Enough of that ...................
    Many thanks for all the additional research that you have conducted. I'll be printing it all out and looking into it in the next couple of days - a few things to do first ---- unpacking / tidying up the gardens etc., and it is Mother's Day tomorrow so we'll be visiting our son.
    Will get back to you all next week.

    Regards
    David

  8. #28
    Knowledgeable and helpful
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Paeroa, New Zealand
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    651

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    I have finally managed to enter all the information that you have ALL supplied into a Family Tree Maker database.

    I looked at the information on the Ancestry family tree (through a very good friend who has a subscription) and I have been a little distracted by following ancestors of lines such as Turlington and Wilcox. But we now have quite a lot of names in the database and all the "juicy" comments have been incorporated.

    So a HUGE THANK YOU to EVERYONE who has contributed to this query.

    I have printed various reports for Hilary to digest and the next step will be to start verifying everything through the purchase of certificates.

    In the meantime I will start looking for social history details (descriptions of occupations, places of abode, etc.,) to build a detailed picture of this family and its life.

    As an aside, Hilary has written a few books (historical novels) but never had any published - but I am sure she can write an interesting story about her ancestors in due course.

    Thanks again everyone, David

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