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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Goodey View Post
    1901 Census RG13/2986 f 117 p 22

    Edgar Lay is with an Emma Lay and a son, Walter. In 1911, Emma is working as a housekeeper and Walter is with her.

    It looks as if Edgar did a runner from Emma, took up with Ann and changed his name to avoid various possible complications.
    Brilliant Peter, Hilary is absolute delighted at such a juicy story ---- many thanks

  2. #12
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    1939 register has him as Edgar Payne living in Birmingham with Hilda

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by geneius View Post
    1939 register has him as Edgar Payne living in Birmingham with Hilda
    Another piece to the story, thanks

  4. #14
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    The story takes another twist ..............................

    I found Edgar Lay on an 1881 census in Leicester in which he had been transcribed as "Illeg Grand Son"

    He was in the home of his grandparents Peter and Eliza Lay - the reference is RG11; 3179; 44; 20

    I have spent some time trying to find Peter on earlier census returns without success, nor can I find any of Peter's children EXCEPT............

    Using wild cards I came across a family that "seems" to fit the bill in 1871 with the surname transcribed as LEA :
    Peter Lea, 44, born in Liverpool
    Elizabeth, 44 born in Warwickshire
    Children William, Sarah, Selenor, Elenor, Walter and Alice all born in Coventry
    Could the name LEA have become LAY?

    Going back to the 1881 census I am suspecting that Edgar is the son of James & Ella Russell as he was living with them in 1891. James and Ella married in 1877, the same year that Edgar was born - this is only a suspicion. The GRO doesn't have a mother's surname recorded, what would be on the actual birth certificate?

    David

  5. #15
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    1861 rg9 2204 69 4
    Peter lea 1824 Prescott lancs

    1851 H107 2061 418 16
    Peter Lea 1821 watch maker

    Baptised 29 Aug 1819 Prescot parents Peter and Ann Lea desc as watchmaker BT on ancestry

    Not even sure this is even correct line is there another name change. and job change??

    ?

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by geneius View Post
    1861 rg9 2204 69 4
    Peter lea 1824 Prescott lancs

    1851 H107 2061 418 16
    Peter Lea 1821 watch maker

    Baptised 29 Aug 1819 Prescot parents Peter and Ann Lea desc as watchmaker BT on ancestry

    Not even sure this is even correct line is there another name change. and job change??

    ?
    Thanks for that, will add it to the possibility section of my research.

  7. #17
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Going back to the 1881 census I am suspecting that Edgar is the son of James & Ella Russell as he was living with them in 1891. James and Ella married in 1877, the same year that Edgar was born - this is only a suspicion. The GRO doesn't have a mother's surname recorded, what would be on the actual birth certificate?
    If the GRO index doesn't record a mmn then it is more than likely the child is illegitimate and no father's name recorded. I have found this to be the case with all my ancestors who I know were illegitimate.
    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by christanel View Post
    If the GRO index doesn't record a mmn then it is more than likely the child is illegitimate and no father's name recorded. I have found this to be the case with all my ancestors who I know were illegitimate.
    Christina
    The certificate should show the mother's name though, shouldn't it?

  9. #19
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    A big thank you to all who have answered my query.
    My wife and I are just about to leave Hilary's home in Palmerston (near Dunedin) to drive back to home in Paeroa in the North Island via the South Coast of the South Island which will take us 4 days so I will be without access to a computrt until Saturday.

    David

  10. #20
    Super Moderator christanel's Avatar
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    Hi David
    Enjoy your trip home and stay safe.
    When the mother's maiden name is not shown on the index it is usually assumed that it is the same as the child's surname and it will show as such on the birth certificate. The chid's first name only is recorded and then if no father is recorded that space is left blank. The mother's full name appears in the appropriate column. I can't recall at the moment just when the forms were changed to include the child's full name including the surname. Until this happened it was assumed that the child's surname was that of the father, if recorded, or if not the same as the mother.
    Christina
    Sometimes paranoia is just having all the facts.
    William Burroughs

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