Williams Tree

[almach]

Thank you, yes I do have thier marriage cert of Dec 1904, which is where I got Thomas Williams snr from, no he wasnt deseased, thanks anyway its not an easy one.

We all have examples of marriage certificates where a deceased father is not entered as such. It could depend upon how the question regarding father was posed.

[WillGayn]

Here are some of the family in 1901, in Blaenavon Monmouthshire. RG13; Piece: 4932; Folio: 220; Page: 22
Laura Williams 54, widow, Forest of Dean, Gloucestershire
Isaac Williams 19, steel worker, Blaenavon
Ellen E Williams 15, Blaenavon

Thank you this makes me think as the marriage cert of 1904 doesnt say that Thomas snr was deseased

[WillGayn]

Note in 1891 William Edward Fry was living in the Williams household

Marriage Sep 1891, Pontypool, vol 11a page 225
WILLIAMS Harriet Jemima/FRY William Edward.
Married 03 Aug 1891 at Trevethin. William's father: Henry Fry

1901,6, Mary St, Blaenavon. RG13; Piece: 4932; Folio: 69; Page: 24
William Ed Fry 29, steelworker, Malmesbury Wilts
Harriet Fry 30, Ross Hereford.
William Hy Fry 9, Blaenarvon
Richard E Fry 5, Blaernavon
George Alb Fry 1 Month, Blaenarvon

1911, 4 Oxford Terrace Blaenavon Mon. RG14; Piece: 31813; SN: 85
William Edward Fry 38, pitman steelworker, Malmesbury Wilts
Harriet Fry 40, Ross Herefordshire. married 19yrs, 8 children born alive, 4 still living
William Fry 19, coalminer hewer, Blaenavon
Richard Fry 15, coalminer hewer, Blaenavon
Laura Fry 8, Blaenavon
Gladys Fry 5, Blaenavon

Name: Harriet Jemima Williams
Gender: Female
Baptism Date: 5 Jun 1870
Baptism Place: Ross On Wye, Hereford, England
Father: Thomas Williams
Mother: Laura

Thank you this is interesting

[WillGayn]

We all have examples of marriage certificates where a deceased father is not entered as such. It could depend upon how the question regarding father was posed.

Thank you I did think of that but was not sure, this does seem to be the best fit. its interesting how you managed to get all of this info, and Janet.
How do you find out if someone has had children that has passed away eg on the 1911 census Thomas and lily had 2 living children and one died.

[almach]

1911 census Thomas and lily had 2 living children and one died.

WILLIAMS, James, mother's maiden name NORNCLIFF [sic]
GRO Reference: 1907 S Quarter in BEDWELLTY Volume 11A Page 94

How do you find out if someone has had children that has passed away

I found James Williams by searching the GRO web site, you need to register to perform the search, I searched for Williams births 1906 +/- 2yrs Bedwelty then looked through the list for a MMN similar to Norcliffe, I used this method as entering Norcliff(e) didn't find anything.

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/c...es/default.asp

[WillGayn]

WILLIAMS, James, mother's maiden name NORNCLIFF [sic]
GRO Reference: 1907 S Quarter in BEDWELLTY Volume 11A Page 94



I found James Williams by searching the GRO web site, you need to register to perform the search, I searched for Williams births 1906 +/- 2yrs Bedwelty then looked through the list for a MMN similar to Norcliffe, I used this method as entering Norcliff(e) didn't find anything.

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/c...es/default.asp

Thank you for this it is really helpful. Although I dont understand why I can find my aunty Laura, uncle Joe but not my grandpa on this - crazy :-) Thank you again.

[janbooth]

I'm trying to follow through Thomas WILLIAMS snr & Laura on census records to see if I can glean any clues. In case you do not have it, they are in the 1871 census of Ross, Herefordshire (RG10/2687, folio 5, page 4) together with son William Geo, aged 3 born Nelson, South Wales, and daughter Harriet, aged 11 months, whom we already know. Thomas snr is shown as a Fellmonger in this census.

1881 census Thomas & Laura are now in Blaenavon, Monmouth (RG11/5253, folio 77, page 4) together with children William George, Harriet Jemimah, James, Thomas and Annie Laura. 1891 census as per post 4, 1901 census as per post 9 by which time Thomas jnr is no longer living with his mother Laura.

Looking at the 1901 census of Ebbw Vale and doing a search on anybody with the surname WILLIAMS living at Pond Row brings up a Thomas WILLIAMS, aged 35, a widowed Blast Furnace Labourer, born Llanibr?, Breconshire, boarding at 13 Pond Row in the household of Oakley & Frances HOPKINS. He is the only Thomas WILLIAMS living at Pond Row in the 1901 census. Don't know whether this helps or not!!

Janet

[janbooth]

I am wondering if son William George WILLIAMS married in Hunslet, Leeds on 25 August 1900 (image available to view on Ancestry). He is shown as aged 32, a Steel Worker of 13 Pepper Grove and his father is Thomas WILLIAMS also a Steel Worker. He married an Annie POGSON of the same address and both witnesses were POGSONs. He and Annie are living with her parents in the 1901 census of Hunslet and he is shown as being born in Glamorgan.

Lunch beckons!

Janet

[janbooth]

Annie Laura WILLIAMS may have married a David Thomas EVANS. 1911 census of Ebbw Vale shows an Annie Laura EVANS, aged 34, born Beaufort Breconshire, living at 14 Woodland Terrace, Waunlynnd? with husband and 5 children which is the same address as your Thomas & Lily WILLIAMS, and looking at the name of Thomas & Lily's son, which happens to be David Thomas WILLIAMS, and the fact they are living at the same address, I think this may be some corroborative evidence that your Thomas WILLIAMS jnr is the brother of Annie Laura EVANS and therefore the son of the Thomas & Laura WILLIAMS we have found for you. Marriage Dec qtr 1897 at Abergevenney reg district of Annie WILLIAMS to either a William EVANS or a David EVANS.

Isaac WILLIAMS, son of Thomas & Laura, is living at 11 Pond Row, Ebbw Vale, in the 1911 census together with wife Emma and children Thomas and Albert. Perhaps the address is a bit more circumstantial evidence to this being the correct family?? Marriage registration at Abergevenney reg district in September qtr 1904 of an Isaac WILLIAMS to either an Emma ROBERTS or Clara COLLINS.

Marriage in January qtr 1907 at Abergevenney reg district of an Ellen Elizabeth WILLIAMS to either a Thomas Henry DAVEY or a Robert Reginald SMITH. 1911 census of Blaenavon shows a Reginald SMITH living at 53 Broad Street Blaenavon with wife Ellen aged 25 born Blaenavon and their children Alfred & Laura.

Still cannot find Thomas WILLIAMS snr's death record with absolute certainty. I would expect it to be in Abergervenney reg district, but there isn't one. One at Bedwelty in June qtr 1893, aged 45, another in Newport in the December qtr 1894 for a Tom WILLIAMS, aged 46, another in Newport in Sep qtr 1897, aged 48, and another for a Thomas Peirce WILLIAMS again at Newport in June qtr 1900, aged 51.

Janet

[WillGayn]

Annie Laura WILLIAMS may have married a David Thomas EVANS. 1911 census of Ebbw Vale shows an Annie Laura EVANS, aged 34, born Beaufort Breconshire, living at 14 Woodland Terrace, Waunlynnd? with husband and 5 children which is the same address as your Thomas & Lily WILLIAMS, and looking at the name of Thomas & Lily's son, which happens to be David Thomas WILLIAMS, and the fact they are living at the same address, I think this may be some corroborative evidence that your Thomas WILLIAMS jnr is the brother of Annie Laura EVANS and therefore the son of the Thomas & Laura WILLIAMS we have found for you. Marriage Dec qtr 1897 at Abergevenney reg district of Annie WILLIAMS to either a William EVANS or a David EVANS.

Isaac WILLIAMS, son of Thomas & Laura, is living at 11 Pond Row, Ebbw Vale, in the 1911 census together with wife Emma and children Thomas and Albert. Perhaps the address is a bit more circumstantial evidence to this being the correct family?? Marriage registration at Abergevenney reg district in September qtr 1904 of an Isaac WILLIAMS to either an Emma ROBERTS or Clara COLLINS.

Marriage in January qtr 1907 at Abergevenney reg district of an Ellen Elizabeth WILLIAMS to either a Thomas Henry DAVEY or a Robert Reginald SMITH. 1911 census of Blaenavon shows a Reginald SMITH living at 53 Broad Street Blaenavon with wife Ellen aged 25 born Blaenavon and their children Alfred & Laura.

Still cannot find Thomas WILLIAMS snr's death record with absolute certainty. I would expect it to be in Abergervenney reg district, but there isn't one. One at Bedwelty in June qtr 1893, aged 45, another in Newport in the December qtr 1894 for a Tom WILLIAMS, aged 46, another in Newport in Sep qtr 1897, aged 48, and another for a Thomas Peirce WILLIAMS again at Newport in June qtr 1900, aged 51.

Janet

WOW I thought the other posts were fabulous and all started to make sense, as I've looked at this family before but I hadnt looked sideways at the siblings and family, this really shows how it all fits together along with the other posts. Thank you