Barnett Burns c1805

[popsit]

1851 census Piece 1761 Folio 241 Page 38
Linton Cambridgeshire
Rosina Burns lodger married aged 50 professor of music born London, Middlesex
Barnet Burns lodger married aged 44 lecturer British Subject
Charlotte Crowther lodger unmarried aged 22 no profession born Bristol – was she Rosina’s daughter?

There is no marriage in England and Wales for Barnet Burns and Rosina

Rosina Burns is in the 1861 census as a widow living on her own in Devon
Piece 1447 Folio 120 Page 29

Rosina Burns is in the 1861 census as a widow living with her daughter Charlotte A Watts (both widows) and two lodgers in near Chester in Cheshire
Piece 3727 Folio 68 Page 42

She seems to have had as much wanderlust as Barnet criss crossing the country! She died in Chester in 1879.


The marriage certificate for Barnet and Bridget is on Ancestry (London, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754), but it is the pre-1837 form which is very unhelpful, in that the only useful information is that they were both from that parish, both single, both adults, and both unable to sign their names. The witnesses were probably friends rather than church wardens or family, (one of them also made his mark).


A Bridget Burns aged 34 died in 1839. The death was registered in St. Olaves Union, Southwark. This is a area south of the river Thames, and just east of Tower Bridge, which was part of the London docks area, and was popular with seamen.

As to whether Bridget and Barnet had any children, I can’t tell you about the period between 18375-1837, but it does not look like they did between 1837-1841. I searched to 1841 on the basis that you said that you had found Barnet and Rosina in the 1841 census, and I can’t be certain that the death record identified about is the Barnet’s wife.

It is not impossible that they simply split up and he moved on to Rosina. As I said above I haven’t found a marriage record for them.

British Subject – others may correct me, but:
England is not Britain it is simply one part of it. So if you are born in England, Scotland, Wales or Northern Ireland you are British. The term British Subject to me implies that he was born overseas to British parents, or perhaps just a British father/mother. I am not certain in those days if a mother would have passed on nationality to a child. So it could be that his father was in the army, or that his father was a sailor, or that perhaps he had gone to a colony such as New Zealand.

First and foremost thank you lots for taking the time to look all this up for me, you have given me so much more info than I have already got. So, going through your answer. Rosina and Barnet in the 1851 census that I have does not state they were married (either to each other or to other people). Yes it looks like Charlotte was Rosina's daughter. The notes I have are: Barnet marries Bridget 1st June 1835 in London, however on the 23rd of July 1835 he is on his way to New Zealand. In Feb. of 1835 he had sailed back to England from Sydney Australia.
Putting all that to one side in 1830, 23rd July Barnet made his first trip to NZ, the one above was the second trip.Whilst in NZ he "marries" a maori woman by the name of Te Amatawa a daughter of a chief of a tribe that took him in (see Wikipedia). They have three children. I do not think they were married in the true sense but probably a tribal sort of marriage. In 1838 we see Barnet in France, 22nd Sept. supposedly married to a Ann Boval with whom he has two children who die young. I have emailed the maire of the 7th arrondisment asking to confirm if they were indeed actually married. By 1841 of course he is back in England and ends up with Rosina. He ends up in Plymouth as a showman doing maori dancing and has a full face tattoo which he got in NZ from the tribe he was living with. So you can see he lead a "varied" life lol. Apologies if this long story has left you with only one strand of hair, me, I have non left (hair that is) but I do love genealogy with a passion. The death you found for Bridget, I to had written this one down as I think this was my Bridget. In essence he has been with Amatawa 1, Bridget 2, Ann 3, and Rosina 4.
I was wondering if Bridget like Rosina might have been married before Barnet as she was 30 years old when she married Barnet, that's quite old for those days to not have been married or had no children. Perhaps she had been ill even before Barnet. I wonder what she died of. Am I correct in thinking I can get a copy of Bridgets death which might tell me how she died?
A bit about Barnets father, I think I have notes somewhere that he to is a mariner.I also have what I consider Barnets death reg. in last qrt 1860, hence Rosina being a widow in 1861. It might interest you to know his full name by the looks of it is George Barnet Burns, he has died in East Stonehouse Devon. Again apologies if this has left you needing a few days rest. Thank you. I'm off now to answer the other replies, hopefully I wont leave any of them messed up lol.

Popsit

[geneius]

A bit of nigt time reading....why struggle when it is on th'internet? Just google Barnet Burns

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnet_Burns

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...0burns&f=false

There are a lot of Irish in N Cumberland so I wonder if that's where his parents came from....

[popsit]

If you put Barnet Burns into a search engine you should get four hits, one of which is Wikipedia which says that Barnet was likely the one baptised in Kirkby Ireleth in the county of Cumbria in 1805. (Though it would have been the county of Cumberland in 1805. )

Pam

Hi, Thank you for your reply.I had seen that one, however the words "british subject" baffled me a bit. In the first reply from Megan which I'm sure you have read suggests he may have been born overseas to a british parent or both. There is so much info given on these reg's that differ. In the 1841 census I have Barnet says he is born in Scotland, aged 40, born 1801and he is a mariner. I might add here he went to sea at the age of 13/14 which because his father was also a mariner could have taken him aboard with him to learn the ropes maybe.In the 1851 census he says he is aged 44 and a british subject. Thank you again.

Popsit

[popsit]

P.S. Thought I might add the following info. I am researching this for a cousin of my husbands whoes great grandfather X 4 was Hori Waiti one of awatare (the maori girl)youngest child.

[popsit]

Hi,
At this stage I don't know where he was born. It could have been anywhere but Wale. I think maybe I should concentrate on his parents, George Burns and Ann Burns nee Stewart and see what I can glean in records (hopefully) of them. Thank you for your reply

Popsit

[popsit]

WOW!! okay well that proves he was born in Cumberland because those are his parents. I know Cumberland was a seaport back then as I have researched my own family in Cumberland where I found a ancestor who had children in the workhouse and went on to be a "Ship Girl" if you know what I mean. Can I ask, if he was born in Cumberland why would he put "British Subject" on records instead of just Cumberland.Thank you

Popsit

[popsit]

There are two write-ups of him. The Wikipedia one is truer than the other that is completely wronge. As I said in an earlier reply he states in the 1841 census that he was born in Scotland aged 40 and born 1801. Can I ask if it is possible he was born in Scotland and because his father was a mariner and moved around the parents happened to be in Cumberland and baptized him there. I was looking for any other children these two may have had and I'm sure I found a girl born in 1805, must go back and have another look. Thank you for your reply

Popsit

[popsit]

Hello,
I have seen both of these and the Wikipedia one is the correct one the other is absolutely rubbish. There was only ever one Barnet Burns. I might add that Barnet's full name on his death cert is George Barnet Burns but never seem to use the George. I guess it was so as not to mistake him for his father. Thank you

Popsit

[popsit]

Hello,
He made two trips to NZ. The first was July 1830. This is where he "married" the maori lady. I think this was more a tribal marriage than a reg. one something I will have to try and find out. He went back to England sometime between 1830 and 1835 leaving behind a "wife" and three children, the maori lady remarried later. He married Bridget in 1835 1st June in London, no children. He was backwards and forwards between NZ, Australia and England. He did a stint in France where he met Ann Boval and had 2 children with her who supposedly died young. Have written to the maire of the 7th arroundisment in paris to check if it was a true marriage. This was supposed to have taken place on the 22nd Sept. 1838. Lastly he married Rosina Crowther although someone else has said they cant find a marriage for these two anywhere. Thank you


Popsit

[popsit]

Born 1805? Cumberland? Ireland? Lancashire?
1819 to sea. Jamaica.
Returned to England and sent to the Lancastrian school.
1827 Sailed in Wilna to Rio de Janiero then the Nimrod to Sydney
Worked at Bank of Australia for 2 years
1830 to NZ trading flax. There 8 months then back to Sydney
1831 february returned to NZ. married chief's daughter.
1832 - 1834 traded flax to Sydney
1834 to Sydney. Son Hoti Waiti born after Barnett's departure.
1835 February to England.
1837 i July married Bridget Cain
May 1826 Lecture in Chichester. Derided.
1858 last lecture. Seriously ill for 3 months
1859 Las reference to Barnett Burns the tattoed showman.

There are numerous Barnett Burns to contend with.
1839 Death of Bridget Burns?
1841 have to account for Barnett Burns in the Manchester and Salford Directories. A fustian firer.
1841 Have to account for the Barnett Burns labourer, born c1801 in the 1841 Scotland census with Mrs. Burns and children Ann 15, Hugh, 13, Rose 8, Thomas 5.
1842 2 Dec. have to account for the Barnett Burns in the Freemason's Lodge records in Ireland.

Christina

WOW!! okay seeing as your from NZ are you in any way related to this Barnet Burns.I am researching for a cousins wife of my husband who wants to know if there are any relatives still living of Barnet Burns coming down through the years in England as she wants to look them up. Hori (Jnr) Waiti is the great grand father X4 of the person I am doing the research for. Going through your Barnet Burns to contend with:

I am hoping and thinking that the death for Bridget is the right one
Barnet was always a Mariner and I have the 1841 census where he is lodging with the Kay family states he was born in Scotland aged 40 born 1801. Also there is Rosina Crowther, pedlar, born Scotland and by 1851 census she is Mrs Burns but no one can find a proper marriage between these two. In the 1851 census both Rosina and Barnet are lodging with the Pluck family and also Charlotte Crowther, daughter to Rosina from a prior marriage.
The Barnet Burns, labourer living with Mrs burns and children cant be him as he is in the 1841 census living in Yorkshire with the Kay family.
The last one wont be him as he would be still in England with Rosina.

A couple of other points are: He married Bridget 1st June 1835 not 1837 in London, I have the transcription.
Between 1835 and 1838 he is in France "married" to Ann Boval. I have written to the maire of the 7th arroundisment in Paris to look for a registered marriage. Because Bridget died in 1835 he was free to marry again. With Ann he had two children who died when young.
By 1841 he was back in England with Rosina. If he was truly married to Ann in France then that would be the reason he couldn't marry Rosina. He had no children with Rosina, she did have two in a previous marriage or partnership. By the by I don't suppose the marriage to Awatare was a registered one as back then a white man marrying a maori lady had to be registered, just wondering. I also have his death transcription where is full name was Georege Barnet Burns but he never used the name George except on his death details and I should think Rosina gave that info. He died in last qrt. 1860 in East Stonehouse Devon. In the 1861 census Rosina is a widow. I read somewhere that he died of Cirrosis of the liver, sorry spelt that wronge. Thank you for your info.

Popsit