Alice and John Eustace missing 1881 census

**almach** · 04-04-2017, 12:29 AM

Jane, do you have Mary and Elizabeth in census records pre 1881? If so would you please give us references. Was their father Thomas?

ETA: If my research is correct, and I'm no where near certain it is, they're a confusing bunch, Jane

, then Mary and Elizabeth's father is Edward.

Name: Edward Whitbread
Spouse: Ann Maria Parr
Record Type: Banns
Event Date: 5 Jun 1835
Parish: St Andrew Holborn
Borough: City of London

Not at all sure now of any of this, my brain has died.............time for bed

Sorry, if I've added to the confusion.

**Jane Gee** · 04-04-2017, 8:19 AM

Hi Alma
This has confused me because the Whitbread sisters had a brother George Morley Whitbread I often wondered where it came from George is living with the sisters in Sonderbergh Rd/St plus their mother in 1881. He married shortly after and I have his marriage certificate he was "done" for stealing from the Civil Service Co-op this probably explains why dad said Uncle George was a slippery character although he didn't know about the scam. The whole bunch I think were economical with the truth. I will not dismiss this because it could be relevant. Thank you for this

**Jane Gee** · 04-04-2017, 8:21 AM

Hi Alma I do but I don't want to confuse you even more because Edward caused me a real headache and I had a light bulb moment and nailed him the little devil! Ann Maria Parr is my 2x gt grandmother. Thankx

**Jane Gee** · 04-04-2017, 8:37 AM

Originally Posted by almach

Hi Jane,

I admit to being totally befuddled by this thread, I'll try and digest all the info found, but later

I don't think this birth has been mentioned, if it has, sorry, ignore my senility

MORLEY, ANNIE MARY, MMN WHITBREAD
GRO Reference: 1881 S Quarter in ISLINGTON Volume 01B Page 279

Is it possible 'your' Annie Mary was actually born MORLEY, and her mother was a WHITBREAD. I am liking the birth as it's the right year and registration district..........but, if her why change her name from Morley to Whitbread??? I do hope I'm not adding to your confusion.

I have looked for a possible marriage Morley/Whitbread and so far found only one, but I've not searched under different spellings. This one is perhaps a little early.

Jane Whitbread, full age, spinster, both of Waterloo Place
Spouse: William Morley, full age, widower, gunsmith
18 Mar 1866, St Mary, Newington
Father Name: Thomas Whitbread (general dealer)
Spouse Father: James Morley (coachman)
Witnesses: Thomas and Ann Morley.

Forget that marriage, I'm sure it's wrong.

Hi Alma

I have decided to send for the birth certificate as its too interesting you see in the 1911 census my grandma Annie Mary Whitbread (always known as Whitbread) is said to have been born Highbury which I think comes under Islington birthday 21st July 1882 but 1881 I think should not be ruled out. Thank youx

**Jane Gee** · 04-04-2017, 8:47 AM

I have ordered the certificate today for Annie Mary Morley mother formerly Whitbread 1881 so am now going to wait for this. I have to find out my census returns for the Whitbread but will have to do this later on as I have a dog to walk ironing and a skirt to make (otherwise my mentor will shout at me!) how I ever worked and have time for everything else I do not know.

janbooth · 04-04-2017, 9:30 AM

Fantastically addictive this hobby of ours isn't it Jane and so much more interesting than all the other mundane jobs we should be doing! Can't wait to see what information the certificates give you. The Annie Mary MORLEY birth sounds really interesting doesn't it - well found Alma.

Janet

**almach** · 04-04-2017, 5:03 PM

Originally Posted by Jane Gee

Hi Alma I do but I don't want to confuse you even more because Edward caused me a real headache and I had a light bulb moment and nailed him the little devil! Ann Maria Parr is my 2x gt grandmother. Thankx

Now I know who the family members are I've found them on earlier census which I thought would give me something to work with......but it hasn't! As you have those censuses already I won't post them. I was sort of hoping there would be a sister to Mary and Elizabeth but there doesn't seem to be.

This has confused me because the Whitbread sisters had a brother George Morley Whitbread

Ooh! Could Annie Mary be George Morley Whitbread's daughter, perhaps born illegitimately and a mixture of his names used!!!

It will be very interesting to see what information is on birth certificate, I do hope it's the right one. Good luck

**Jane Gee** · 05-04-2017, 9:52 AM

Originally Posted by almach

Now I know who the family members are I've found them on earlier census which I thought would give me something to work with......but it hasn't! As you have those censuses already I won't post them. I was sort of hoping there would be a sister to Mary and Elizabeth but there doesn't seem to be.

Ooh! Could Annie Mary be George Morley Whitbread's daughter, perhaps born illegitimately and a mixture of his names used!!!

It will be very interesting to see what information is on birth certificate, I do hope it's the right one. Good luck

Hi Almach

I have something else which definitely ties George Morley Whitbread to the family and his father was also a dubious character. I think it was a statement Georges mother Ann Maria Whitbread signed I think it was an application to join the Post Office there was some porkys told in that too. I would take up pages regarding this family and all the things I have found out it took me years to work out they had skipped over the Thames to Barnes Surrey where the family were with George Augustus Parr ( Ann Marias brother) Bookseller and stationer who was in the debtors prison. Dad always said we were supposed to related to Catherine Parr (I don't think so) but think this was a joke told to the nieces when they were children by George Parr. I have a description in a book of George Parr what a find he sounds like a character from Dickens! All for now how I wish the postman would hurry up with my certificates!x

**Jane Gee** · 08-04-2017, 7:58 AM

Originally Posted by janbooth

I have just found the National Probate Calendar entry for a John EUSTACE of Camden Cottage, 379 Holloway Road, Islington, who died 27 April 1897, probate granted to John EUSTACE, gentleman, leaving effects of £6762. This made me look further because John EUSTACE, brother of Alice, named his father as John EUSTACE, Gentleman, on his marriage record. Electoral Register entry in 1891 shows a John EUSTACE living at Camden Cottage, 379 Holloway Road and a John EUSTACE remains there until 1915 but nobody else is shown as living there and John born c1848 is still shown as single in the 1911 census.

So I assume that the John EUSTACE born c1848 is the father of your John & Alice as he acknowledged them in his Will but then who the heck was their mother!! John EUSTACE the father looks to have married a Helen PICKFORD on 1 December 1845 at Bethnal Green so no obvious link to the WHITBREAD family. I wonder if he mentions his grandchildren John & Alice or the WHITBREAD family in his Will?

So far all the relevant people appear to be missing in the 1881 census unless I am just having a very bad day. I thought I might have found John EUSTACE born c1848 in the 1881 census of Brighton. This John EUSTACE is shown as a Boot Maker born c1850 in London, but he is still there with his wife Eliza and masses of children in the 1891 census of Brighton.

Ah well, tomorrow is another day and perhaps will bring more luck.

Janet

HI Janet
Birth cert just received for John Eustace 1848 Whitechapel Union sub dist Spitalfields. 7.4.1848 7 Princes St Christchurch John is son of john shoemaker mother Ellen formerly Pickford so think this is the father of John and Alice however I am struggling with the 1861 census but know that this census suffered the most where lost pages are concerned. They lived in 1851 at the Old Artillery ground but couldn't find them in 1861 there so may have moved. I will get my maps out to see where I can track them the Eustace family had strong Islington ties at one time or another as previously said. I will also check with the national archives site to see what pages are missing for the area.