John WELLINGS mar Elizabeth ? C1830

[Pam Downes]

the baptism record for Emma WELLINGS on FamilySearch says it took place at St Leonards, Shoreditch to parents John WELLINGS & Elizabeth. born 14 October 1832, christened 27 January 1833.

Sorry, am I missing the point?

Slightly.
Have a read of Janet's post #15 where, although it says John in Emma's baptism record, later census entries give a father's name of Joseph.
We already know that there is more than one John and Elizabeth around. Not everyone was baptised as a child. Misspellings/mistranscriptions seem quite common with the the surname.
So we're now waiting for Kaye to tell us how she can positively link her Emma to that particular baptism record in Shoreditch especially given that Emma married in Australia and doesn't appear on any English census with her husband.
It's not enough to say 'my Emma was 19 years old when she emigrated, and this Emma was born in 1832 so it must be her'.Kaye needs an Australian document which says either that Emma's father was a carpenter or that she was born in Shoreditch for 99.99% confirmation that the family Janet (and I) found in 1851 is the right one.

Pam

[KayeCrett]

Hello Pam, I agree with all you say. However, I actually 'don't know' anything for certain. I can only follow Emma's trail as best I know how. I have the shipping list which arrived SA 1855 stating she was 22 and from Middlesex. I then found 'a' baptism of 'my' Emma in 1833, born 1832 Shoreditch parents John and Elizabeth. The rest, as they say, is history, from the posts on this forum. Oh, I did find all those presumed, siblings of Emma's on Family Search. Sorry, perhaps I am looking for a needle in a haystack.

[KayeCrett]

Emma's children born (Angell) Adelaide, South Australia and Kew Victoria were Alice, Emma, Mary, William, Jane, Ann, Henry, Johnathon, Anne, Louisa, Susan and Maria. I know her husband, William Angell would have had some say in the naming of their children but some were the names of her siblings. Not sure if this is a coincidence or not??????

[Pam Downes]

Emma's children born (Angell) Adelaide, South Australia and Kew Victoria were Alice, Emma, Mary, William, Jane, Ann, Henry, Johnathon, Anne, Louisa, Susan and Maria. I know her husband, William Angell would have had some say in the naming of their children but some were the names of her siblings. Not sure if this is a coincidence or not??????

Some of the names were the same as her possible siblings.

I notice that you've now changed Emma's husband's name to William. (You originally said John in post #10.)
That will save me querying that I could only find Emma Willings marrying a William Angell in 1855 on the Genealogy SA site.
But how do you know the date of their marriage?

Pam

[KayeCrett]

Sorry, I did to. I put it down to the terrible humidity we have been suffering here at the moment, it's stifling. Anyway, William it is, they married in Adelaide 06 Mar 1855, I have their mar cert. Basic info on it. They both died in Kew, Vic. William before Emma, then Emma mar Silas Dogrel(l), he was a widower, with a shady past re the death of his first wife. (I didn't think this was relevant). Emma outlived both husbands and several of her children. And yet she was only 68 when she died.

[Pam Downes]

Sorry, I did to. I put it down to the terrible humidity we have been suffering here at the moment, it's stifling. Anyway, William it is, they married in Adelaide 06 Mar 1855, I have their mar cert. Basic info on it. They both died in Kew, Vic. William before Emma, then Emma mar Silas Dogrel(l), he was a widower, with a shady past re the death of his first wife. (I didn't think this was relevant). Emma outlived both husbands and several of her children. And yet she was only 68 when she died.

I know that Australian certificates have more information on them than English ones, so your idea of 'basic' will differ to mine. Can you tell us all the details please. Don't need the name of the vicar/registrar, but everything else. Believe me, it's surprising that one word which looks totally nothing can be the big clue.

Pam

[janbooth]

What information re Emma's parents, if any, is contained on her marriage certificates, Kaye? I don't know whether father's name and occupation is stated as it is over here in the UK. This would at least give us something to get our teeth into.

Using census records prior to 1855 when your Emma migrated to Australia, there are very few candidates to be your Emma. 1851 census shows 2 Emma WELLING(S) in Middlesex, one the daughter of Joseph & Elizabeth which we have mentioned above and the other born c1834 in Dartford, Kent, daughter of W H WELLING, a Leather Cutter, and his wife Eliz, residing at 21 Spencer Street, St George in the East. However, this latter Emma is still living with parents William & Elizabeth WELLING in the 1861 census of Mile End Old Town so cannot be your Emma. There is another Emma WELLING born c1833 at Boxmoor Hertfordshire, but she is living in the 1871 census of Camberwell, so again cannot be your Emma.

Going back to the daughter of John Joseph & Elizabeth, she is not living with parents in the 1861 census as I stated in post 15. I cannot find her under her maiden name in the 1861 UK census. Oh, this might put the cat among the pigeons! There is a marriage at Sedgley, Staffordshire in 1853 of an Emma WELLINGS, aged 21, father John WELLINGS, to a Thomas STANLEY, but I think we can discount her from the equation as the 1861 census of Bilston, Staffs, shows her to have been born in Bilston - phew I was worried for a bit there. Further confirmed by her baptismal record which shows her to be the daughter of Sarah WELLINGS, single woman.

Janet

Snap, Pam, my first paragraph asks the same. Hope you enjoyed your lunch yesterday.