Thomas Ellis 1889-1917 Birmingham

[almach]

To start you off with the Morrall's
1911, 8 Bishop Place Birmingham. RG14; Piece: 18129;
Edwin Morrall 65, coppersmith, Birmingham
Louisa Morrall 54, married 28yrs, 7 children of which 4 are still living
Ann Morrall 21, dau, screw trade
Nellie Morrall 18, dau,
Louisa Morrall 3, niece

[mikejee]

Are you sure that your fathers birth address was no 4 court 5 Bishop St and not no 5 court 4 Bishop St (an easy thing to misread). I say this as I have looked at the Birmingham online electoral rolls . Only a limited number of years are online and 1935 and 1938 do not list the parents together at that address or anywhere in Bishop st. Most of the 1937 data is not online, but for some reason the absent voters list is online, and shows a George Arthur Ellis at no 5 court 4. Also there is an Annie Violet Rhoda Ellis at 5 court 4 in 1939 together with an Ann & George Joseph Allen

[Pam Downes]

Pam, how right you are. I am £56 down, over the last two days !!!!!!!!!!!

Absolutely no apologies needed. You have been a star.

Our village library is about the size of a garden shed, albeit, a large shed, but they do have internet access. It may be that a sub to Ancestry is a better idea. SWMBO has decided to research her family as well.

You don't say whether you're in the UK (wilds of northern Scotland if your distance is true ) or on the continent. If the former, as your library has internet access check out the county council website because normally the sub is taken out to cover all the libraries in the county. If you're on the continent, then you will just have to ask the library.

SWMBO has decided to research her family as well.

Better than you getting lumbered with doing it.

I do not know when my grandmother died, but I will ask my older brothers if they know. I do know that she moved out of Birmingham, and lived in Rednal.

The tree on Ancestry which had Annie Violet Ellis on it says that Ann (nee Morrall) died in Rednal, so that would seem to match.

Here I will give a word of warning about family trees on the internet. Do not believe everything you read.
Some people are good researchers, and will back up names and dates with census refs, etc. Other people just seem to accumulate names with no regard for accuracy. Even my cousin copied from someone's tree so he's got William fathering children about sixteen years after he died, and miles away from where he lived.
By all means use trees as an aid (as in the case of finding Annie Violet and your grandmother's death), but do your own research.

I said to my wife today, that this is like following a trail of breadcrumbs, and suddenly a slice of bread turns up. Who knows, I may find the loaf.

Steve.

If you don't find the loaf it won't be for lack of us prodding you in the right direction.

With regard to a sub to one of the major sites (Ancestry and Findmypast aka FMP) - neither site is better than the other. It's a case of which one has the most of what you want.
Both have the GRO Index from 1837-2006/2007.
Both have all the census 1841-1911.
FMP is the only one with the 1939 Register which is the nearest you will get to a 1941 census. It's not complete because it omits all the regular servicemen for a start, and won't have all the records on it fully opened till possibly 2039, i.e. when the youngest person on it (if still alive) will be 100 years old.
Both have some military records from WW1. Some are the same, some not.

You need to look at what else the site(s) have in relation to the places you will be researching, in your case Birmingham for starters. Use words such as Birmingham, Staffordshire, baptisms, etc to search the Card Catalog on Ancestry and A-Z of Record Sets on FMP.

The Genealogist is the other 'big' site. I know it's blowing its own trumpet in this chart but it is helpful for you to see the sort of things available to help your research. https://www.
thegenealogist.co.uk/images/index/wdytya_compare_full.png

Be aware that just because a site has a tick against, say, school records, it doesn't mean that it has them for every school in every county.

All three sites offer a free trail (for Ancestry and FMP it's fourteen days) but make sure you either untick the 'automatic subscription' box or else cancel the trial on day thirteen else you'll find your bank balance plummeting. Haven't tried The Genealogist.

The world sub on FMP also includes the British Newspaper Archive, which is available as a separate sub.
Both Ancestry and FMP have monthly subs (check what records are available - they may differ to a yearly sub) and also Pay-as-you-go credits. The Genealogist has a three-monthly sub at various levels, but neither cover all their records. Only the Diamond one does that.

A lot of information can also be obtained for free from sites such as FreeBMD (the GRO Index 1837-1983, though it's still a work in progress), FreeCEN and FreeREG, both also still works in progress.
There are 'stickies' at the top of quite a few of the forums, with links to various sites.
In the 'Family history' forum check out subforums such as 'Useful information and tips' and 'Useful online sources'. (I can recommend the last sticky in the list of the latter. )

When the GRO Index first came into being not all the details available in later years were included. Age at death was only included from 1866; mother's maiden name for a birth began in September quarter 1911; spouse's surname for marriage in 1912.
However the GRO have now released an updated Index which gives mother's maiden name (in most cases) for births, and also ages at death from the beginning of the Index.
These details are only available on the GRO site itself. https://www.thegenealogist.co.uk/ima...mpare_full.png
The indexes are not complete - births go up to 1915 and deaths go up to 1957 - and are the completed parts of various attempts for the GRO to provide a more accurate, online, Index than the one they first released. (i.e. the one available on Ancestry, FMP, The Genealogist and FreeBMD.)

Pam

[NOTSHARP]

Are you sure that your fathers birth address was no 4 court 5 Bishop St and not no 5 court 4 Bishop St (an easy thing to misread). I say this as I have looked at the Birmingham online electoral rolls . Only a limited number of years are online and 1935 and 1938 do not list the parents together at that address or anywhere in Bishop st. Most of the 1937 data is not online, but for some reason the absent voters list is online, and shows a George Arthur Ellis at no 5 court 4. Also there is an Annie Violet Rhoda Ellis at 5 court 4 in 1939 together with an Ann & George Joseph Allen

The plot thickens!

The 4 court 5 Bishop street address is taken from a 1937 COPY of my father's BC, so could be wrong.



My two older brothers only remember that there was a Bishop Street address.


Thank you for your help.

EDIT: Why that pic has shown all sideyways, I have no idea.


Steve.

[NOTSHARP]

To start you off with the Morrall's
1911, 8 Bishop Place Birmingham. RG14; Piece: 18129;
Edwin Morrall 65, coppersmith, Birmingham
Louisa Morrall 54, married 28yrs, 7 children of which 4 are still living
Ann Morrall 21, dau, screw trade
Nellie Morrall 18, dau,
Louisa Morrall 3, niece

So, another door is ajar, that, no doubt, I will be tempted to poke my head through!

Should I thank you?

Of course I should.


Steve.

[NOTSHARP]

I have managed to track down the half siblings of my father.via FreeBMD

We think that Catherine R is the one known to the family as Kitty, and that Joseph W, known as Joey.

The two others, John T, and Leonard F, and completely unknown to any surviving family, on the George Arthur Ellis side.

The surname is Allen.
Father George Joseph Allen

So far, I have not found a record of marriage for George Joseph Allen and Annie Ellis (Morrall)

Onward and upward.



Steve

[Pam Downes]

So far, I have not found a record of marriage for George Joseph Allen and Annie Ellis (Morrall)

The death registration with a birth date of 5 Oct 1899 was in the name of Ann Ellis which indicates that she didn't marry George Allen.

With regard to the 4 and 5 court/4 and 5 Bishop Street, I have found instances where people have moved one or two doors away between census or between census and having a child so I wouldn't worry greatly about what might seem an error, especially as you're talking about twenty years difference.

You could always contact the register office who issued the original certificate and ask if the address on the copy is correct, though there's no guarantee that they will do a look up. They will need to know the subdistrict, date of registration, entry number, name, and the address.

Pam

[macwil]

... With regard to the 4 and 5 court/4 and 5 Bishop Street, ...

I think these are the same address. Just written differently. Without seeing the documents in question I cannot prove it. I suspect the later documents were headed Bishop St. then a list of Numbers and then further denoted by the Court.

[mikejee]

I think these are the same address. Just written differently. Without seeing the documents in question I cannot prove it. I suspect the later documents were headed Bishop St. then a list of Numbers and then further denoted by the Court.

They are not the same. There is a no 4 court 5 and a no 5 court 4 as separate addresses, as seen below from the 1939 electoral rolls.It may however have been written incorrectly on the certificate.

[NOTSHARP]

They are not the same. There is a no 4 court 5 and a no 5 court 4 as separate addresses, as seen below from the 1939 electoral rolls.It may however have been written incorrectly on the certificate.

Many thanks for that information.

What do the letters to the left of the names, denote?




Steve.