Thomas Ellis 1889-1917 Birmingham

[NOTSHARP]

Hello, one and all.

Like many, I'm sure, I am researching my family history, and searching for information on my Grandfather, who was killed in WW1, has lead me here.

I hope to be able to contribute.


Steve.

[Pam Downes]

Hello Steve,

Welcome to British-Genealogy,

If you came to us via Forces War Records this will tell you a little about us.

Put together the details you have about your grandfather and then ask us what else you want to know about him.
Unfortunately information about exactly what he did or where he was in the war may be limited because approximately 70% of service records were destroyed by fire and then bombing in WW2.

Pam

[NOTSHARP]

Hello Pam.

Thank you for the welcome.

I have found out that my Grandfather was killed in action on 01/12/1917. Until last week, none of the surviving family knew that!

I now know his Regiment ( Coldstream Guards ), and have requested his service records - if they have them.

Over the last few days I have made some good progress, and now know the map reference of where his body was found, and that he is commemorated at Gouzeaucourt new British Cemetery, in France. My wife and I are going to see his resting place in July.

He was from Birmingham, and, at the moment, I am assuming that he was born there.
I do not have a DOB, but, hopefully, his service records will provide that.
He was married to Ann Morrall in 1911, 3rd.quarter of 1911- if my information is correct.

I need to find a copy of his birth certificate, which should provide his parents details.

Are census searches possible from an address?

Any help as to where to look, would be good. I am now living five hundred miles from Birmingham, so "on line" will be it.



Steve.

[Pam Downes]

Hi Steve,

That would have been quite a good summary - except for one missing thing. Your grandfather's name.
Which I presume is Thomas Ellis.

So we'll ignore all the army stuff for a moment and concentrate on confirming a few other facts.

He was married to Ann Morrall in 1911, 3rd.quarter of 1911- if my information is correct.

Do you have the birth certificate of whichever of the three children of Thomas and Ann who is your father or mother?
And does it say that the parents of that child are Thomas Ellis and Ann (think the correct terminology is 'formerly') but nee Morrall? If so, you're on the right track. If not, stop right there.

Assuming that we are on the right track, what is Thomas' occupation on it? We might be able to do a little digging based on that.
Next you must get a copy of Thomas and Ann's marriage certificate. Apply direct to the GRO https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ at a cost of £9.25.
The certificate will tell you (hopefully) their true ages (sometimes people did lie) and Thomas' occupation in 1911, shortly after the census which will hopefully mean that we can find accurately him on the 1911 census.
Until you have that certificate I wouldn't get too tied up worrying about a birth certificate for him. Ellis is a relatively common name and it's only too easy to make assumptions based on one tiny piece of information.

Gotta dash out now, but I will be back.

Pam

[NOTSHARP]

Hi Steve,

That would have been quite a good summary - except for one missing thing. Your grandfather's name.
Which I presume is Thomas Ellis.

So we'll ignore all the army stuff for a moment and concentrate on confirming a few other facts.

Do you have the birth certificate of whichever of the three children of Thomas and Ann who is your father or mother?
And does it say that the parents of that child are Thomas Ellis and Ann (think the correct terminology is 'formerly') but nee Morrall? If so, you're on the right track. If not, stop right there.

Assuming that we are on the right track, what is Thomas' occupation on it? We might be able to do a little digging based on that.
Next you must get a copy of Thomas and Ann's marriage certificate. Apply direct to the GRO https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ at a cost of £9.25.
The certificate will tell you (hopefully) their true ages (sometimes people did lie) and Thomas' occupation in 1911, shortly after the census which will hopefully mean that we can find accurately him on the 1911 census.
Until you have that certificate I wouldn't get too tied up worrying about a birth certificate for him. Ellis is a relatively common name and it's only too easy to make assumptions based on one tiny piece of information.

Gotta dash out now, but I will be back.

Pam

Hello Pam.

Ah! The name would be useful. You are correct - Thomas Ellis.

I have a 1937 copy of my father's BC. His DOB was 22/01/1913, and he was born at 4 court 5 Bishop Street, Birmingham, in the sub-district of St. Martin. His mother's address is the same.

His parents are listed as :

Thomas Ellis - Marine store dealer's labourer.
Ann Ellis -formerly Morrall

I have ordered a copy of the marriage certificate.


Now, I am baffled.

"three children of Thomas and Ann"

Where did that information come from?

I have (possibly) found a birth record for Clara Ellis, but the mother's name is given as Morrall ????

Our family believed that the other siblings were half brothers/sisters from another relationship after Thomas died.

Ann, Kitty, Louie, Joey(Joseph?), Walter are names known.


Again, Pam, thank you.


Steve.

[almach]

Hi Steve, the marriage certificate is on Ancestry, here's the details.

Thomas Ellis age 23, ostler, and Ann Morrall age 21, married 9th July 1911 at Saint Gabriel, Deritend, Birmingham.
Both were residing at 3, Railway Terrace. Thomas' father, George Ellis, was deceased his occupation had been horse dealer.
Ann's father, Edwin Morrall, was a Copper ????
The witnesses were Frank William Bunn and Nellie Morrall

[NOTSHARP]

Thank you very much indeed, almach.

That ties in with the family belief, that there were horse traders in the family, way back.

Steve.

[almach]

The original sheet is very difficult to read. All born Birmingham except Annie Jenks
1901, leopold st (74??) Deritend. RG13; Piece: 2855; Folio: 85; Page: 19
George Ellis 37, Stable horse dealer
Florrie Ellis 37
Thomas Ellis 12
Alice Ellis 10
Julian Carl Ellis 3
Pyelis Mora ???? Ellis 1
Annie Jenks 19, servant

[Pam Downes]

Three gold stars for almach for those wedding details.

Steve, I'm on my tablet at the moment and am not clever enough to do advanced techie stuff on it, but if you go to freebmd.org.uk/search
select births, enter Ellis in the first surname box and Morrall in the spouse/mother's surname box, dates 1912- 1917 you'll find Thomas and his two siblings - one of whom is Clara.
I'm not sure which record you're referring to re Clara's birth but her mother's maiden name was Morrall. Is that what's confusing you? I've had problems in the past by confusing maiden and married names.

Pam

[almach]

1911, 4 Albert Terrace, Ashley St, St Martin Birmingham.
Florence Ellis 47, widow, button hole hand, gents tailoring
Thomas Ellis 22, carter
Alice Ellis 20, collar polisher, laundry
Julian Carl Ellis 13,
Phylis Mona Ellis 11