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  1. #1
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    Default Whalley - birthplace records

    Hi, I've been researching my family history for a number of years now through membership with ancestry websites, visits to archive centres, research passed down from parents and grandparents and the purchase of transcripts on CD's. Pre UK census times are always more difficult and there a number of my family strands which have come to a halt due to a lack of records or in some cases too many people with the same name. However, I enjoy the mysterys and solving these problems when I have the time to search. It's always very rewarding when another piece of the 'jigsaw' is found and the further back I go the smaller the findings are, but they are no less rewarding than finding a whole family on a census record.
    I am wondering if anyone can shed any light on the records of the town of Skipton in North Yorkshire UK. The name I am trying to trace is Whalley, sometimes spelt Whally though no doubt there are many other versions of the name. I assume that originally the name came from the town of Whalley in Lancashire not far from Skipton. I always thought my ancestors came from my original home area of Halifax, but my great x 3 grandfather is recorded on census records as being born in Skipton, (Craven on some records - Skipton was and maybe still is in the Craven district). I have visited his grave in Warley Halifax, thanks to a local historian who sent me a grave plan of where he is buried, and have his birth year 1798, however I have been unable to find any records to show who his parents were as I can find no record of his birth online and wouldn't know which church records to search.
    His family appears to have moved to Warley, Halifax when he was a child and he married a Halifax girl.
    There are numerous Whalleys in the county of Lancashire, but I can only find a handful in Skipton and none called Joseph born 1798.
    Any suggestions about which church records to begin searching would be helpful. Another potential problem is that Joseph and his wife were non conformists so if his parents were also non conformist would he be likely to be on the parish baptism records for that area or were there non conformists who were registered for baptisms?

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    Hi Grace, and welcome. A few thoughts...

    I've just had a quick look in the 1851 census for Joseph Whalley/Whally/Warley born 1798 +/5 and not found him. Was he still alive then, and if so, do you have the address, or preferably the reference, please? Also for any other censuses you have him in.

    Can you give us Joseph's marriage details, please? Just wondering if he might have married after 1837, when a father should be named in the register/certificate.

    As you know his burial place, is there a memorial giving any useful information?

    You say he was non-conformist, but do you know which denomination? A lot of them did practise infant baptism, though Baptists didn't and you sometimes find birth records instead. Quakers didn't practise baptism at all, but their other records usually contain a lot of helpful detail.

    Sorry for all the questions just as you arrive here, but it makes it easier for us to help, as well as making sure we don't spend time looking for things you already know.

    Arthur

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    Default Joseph Whalley

    Hi, Thanks for looking at this. Joseph died on the 3rd April 1880 and is buried at Moor End Chapel, Mixenden, ( originally in the old Ovenden district) Halifax. I have found census records with him on so I was able to list a number of the children he and Elizabeth his wife had. He and Elizabeth married on 29th February 1824 so I haven't been able to get a certificate with parents listed on it. I have a copy of the marriage record from the Parish Church in Halifax, St John's. Marriage by Banns. No other people are listed on it apart from the Curate and two witnesses who have surnames unconnected to my family.
    Joseph and Elizabeth's later children are baptised in a non conformist chapel - Zion Methodist Connexion Ovenden - and Moor End Chapel where they are buried was, I think was Methodist. Their earliest children are baptised at Luddenden, another non conformist chapel in the area where Elizabeth was born. I have no proof that he may have come from a Methodist family or other Non Conformist background, but since I have been unable to find any record of him in Skipton, I began to wonder if he wasn't in the parish records at all, hence my query about non conformist baptism. I seem to have rather a lot of ancestors who converged in the Mixenden area who were 'rebellious' in their faith!
    The census records I have are from 1841 when he lived at Hollins Gardens with Elizabeth and 9 children and is listed as a farmer. In 1851 they lived at what appears to say Haugh Gate Head, Warley, the writing for the name Whalley looks a bit like Mhalley. In fact the name Joseph isn't that clear until you look closely! It records his place of birth as Skipton. Age 51. In 1861 his residence is High Gate Head ( obviously that's where they were in 1851 too) aged 63 and born Craven. In 1871 he is 71 years of age and place of birth says Lancashire, just to confuse me! Skipton is on the border of Lancs and Yorks, so some areas around Skipton have changed counties over the years. Hence not knowing where to begin searching for the birth/baptism records as there were and still are many small chapels in that area. I hope that helps.

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    OK, a few more thoughts, but that might be all I can manage for today:

    1851 census - the enumerator's spelling seems to be a bit flaky, as he had the surname as WHALEY.

    Next, I wondered if Joseph might have had any brothers or sisters who married in Halifax around the same time. I'm not sure if I found any or not, but there was a Robert Whalley widower of Warley who married Elizabeth BUTTERWORTH in 1830 - could it be Joseph's father? He appears to have died in the 1830s as Betty Whalley widow (father William Butterworth) married again in 1839. Might be worth looking into this.

    Also, I have a CD of indexes for the Skipton area, which had some interesting entries, though no exact match unfortunately. There seemed to be Whalley families in Kildwick and Carleton in Craven, but also in Skipton. The CD doesn't have baptisms, but there were marriages of John Whalley to Elizabeth Philips in 1794 and as a widower to Sarah Lowcock in 1796. Elizabeth died in 1795. John and Sarah appear to have had a son John in about Dec 1796, who died in 1798, then John died in 1801. (There was also a Robert who married in 1760.)

    If (and it's a big if) your Joseph belonged to this family, then being orphaned at a very young age might help to explain moving from Skipton to Halifax.

    Finally, have you explored the resources offered by Calderdale FHS? They have a massive index to their transcriptions freely available online. Members can obtain full details free of charge, others have to pay; alternatively they have a wide range of publications for sale. There are quite a few entries for both Joseph and Robert Whalley, so again, something to explore.

    Arthur

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    He and Elizabeth married on 29th February 1824 so I haven't been able to get a certificate with parents listed on it. I have a copy of the marriage record from the Parish Church in Halifax, St John's. Marriage by Banns. No other people are listed on it apart from the Curate and two witnesses who have surnames unconnected to my family.
    The marriage was pre 1 July 1837 so this is the only entry you will find. Certification as we know them started on 1 July 1837.

    Looking at the other marriages on the page I would suspect that the witnesses were lay church people, William Rushworth & Thomas Beaver.

    On marriage Joseph was described as a comber.

    I have no proof that he may have come from a Methodist family or other Non Conformist background, but since I have been unable to find any record of him in Skipton, I
    Your family could have been dissenters!

    In 1870-72, John Marius Wilson's Imperial Gazetteer of England and Wales described Warley like this:
    WARLEY, a township in Halifax parish, W. R. Yorkshire; 3 miles W of Halifax. It contains a village of its own name; includes five hamlets, part of Sowerby-Bridge town, and parts of Luddenham and Luddenham-Foot villages; carries on worsted and woollen manufactures in several establishments; adjoins other extensive manufactories; and has a post-office under Halifax, 5 dissenting chapels, and a partially endowed national school. Acres, 3,980. Real property, £20,505. Pop., 6,482. Houses, 1,370. The manor belongs to S. W. L. Fox, Esq. There are stone quarries and Druidical remains.
    https://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/place/1229

    Check this site out as well espec for trade directory etc. https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/YKS/WRY/index.html

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    Thanks geneius, for your information too. I do have a copy of the entry of the marriage, but I hadn't made the connection with the mills in Luddenden and Joseph's work as a comber as he is later recorded as a farmer. The family as I remember my Grandparents talking about it were from Warley and the Shaw Booth area so that's were I've been looking for links after the Skipton connection, but the Luddenden area is where he appears to have met Elizabeth so thanks for focusing my search into another area. Sometimes I get a bit stuck and can't see beyond a particular point!!!

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    Just re-read my post from yesterday, and realised I wasn't totally clear:

    Quote Originally Posted by arthurk View Post
    Also, I have a CD of indexes for the Skipton area, which had some interesting entries, though no exact match unfortunately. There seemed to be Whalley families in Kildwick and Carleton in Craven, but also in Skipton. The CD doesn't have baptisms, but there were marriages of John Whalley to Elizabeth Philips in 1794 and as a widower to Sarah Lowcock in 1796. Elizabeth died in 1795. John and Sarah appear to have had a son John in about Dec 1796, who died in 1798, then John died in 1801. (There was also a Robert who married in 1760.)

    If (and it's a big if) your Joseph belonged to this family, then being orphaned at a very young age might help to explain moving from Skipton to Halifax.
    The entries I gave details of (John Whalley m. Elizabeth Philips 1794 etc etc, plus Robert's marriage) were all from Skipton (Holy Trinity, the parish church). Sorry if I muddled you.

    Arthur

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    [QUOTE=Grace Moore;637776]
    Joseph and Elizabeth's later children are baptised in a non conformist chapel - Zion Methodist Connexion Ovenden - and Moor End Chapel where they are buried was, I think was Methodist.
    Senior moment!!! - Just realised that I have listed some incorrect details for the Whalley family. Joseph and Elizabeth are not buried at Moor End but at Mount Tabor nearby. It is their son Thomas and family who are buried at Moor End Chapel. Mount Tabor is also a non-conformist chapel and a number of other family members are also buried there.
    Grace

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grace Moore View Post
    Senior moment!!! - Just realised that I have listed some incorrect details for the Whalley family. Joseph and Elizabeth are not buried at Moor End but at Mount Tabor nearby. It is their son Thomas and family who are buried at Moor End Chapel. Mount Tabor is also a non-conformist chapel and a number of other family members are also buried there.
    Grace
    In the light of that I've just had another look at the index to transcriptions on the Calderdale FHS site, and it appears they have a memorial inscription for Joseph at Mount Tabor, as well as others at the same place - but perhaps you already have the details.

    They also refer to a death notice for Joseph from the Halifax Guardian: they can supply a typed copy to members free of charge, but you can also order a copy from the paper itself from Calderdale Libraries for a small fee. Sometimes these death notices give a bit of extra information - one I got mentioned the man's occupation and exactly where he lived.

    For a non-local member, my experience of the Calderdale FHS is that it is one of the better ones. They have a wide range of projects and publications available, and membership gives full access to the index on their website - around 1 million names, if I remember correctly. Joining as an internet member (where you get pdf rather than paper copies of the journal) is ridiculously cheap.

    Arthur

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