Batrams...again!!

[JulPre]

I'm seeking assistance again. Also, can you recommend steps to take to get moving when I get stuck...I can't keep asking for your help.

I have John Bartram b. around 1801 (Coleshill, Warwickshire) d 1878 (Tamworth, Staffordshire) married to Hanna Pallet b. 1807-1809 d 1878 (Mansfield, Nottinghamshire). The marriage date 14.09.1829 (Tamworth, Staffordshire). I am trying to trace this Bartram line back but I am finding it difficult and often I get mislead. I am fairly certain that Johns parents are Thomas and Mary Bartram, but I have no dates or any further information.

Thank you in advance.

[Sandyhall]

just checking would this be you man - note spelling of name

John Beatram, Wife Hannah
Son Thomas Beatram
Gender Male
Christening Date 12 Sep 1830
Christening Place TAMWORTH,STAFFORD,ENGLAND.

[JulPre]

Hi Sandyhall, Thanks for the reply. Yes that looks like them, I have Thomas as being born in 1830, although I have never seen that spelling before!

[Sandyhall]

Hi Sandyhall, Thanks for the reply. Yes that looks like them, I have Thomas as being born in 1830, although I have never seen that spelling before!

Not finding very much about them, have his children and census but nothing further sorry, someone else may find something.

Peoples accents are sometimes the reason for different spellings of names

[JulPre]

Thanks for trying.

[geneius]

Try typing this again!

can you recommend steps to take to get moving when I get stuck

We all get stuck, thinking out of the box helps, using * instead of a letter ( ancestry likes that). We're here to help you so no problem...

Some free sites that you may find helpful now you are onto Parish records

familysearch.org

freereg.org.uk

genuki.org.uk

Other sources are the Re3cord Offices whio hold the Parish Register you want the info from.

I would recommend getting the 1829 marriage entry, will state where otp ( of this parish) witnesses maybe family members...look at others on the page as they could be 'professional witnesses' this maybe by Banns or Licence, if the latter you need a copy of the licence, more info!
You may get a copy from the RO use this link https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/WAR/Coleshill

or by visiting familysearch centre
Oxford England Family History Center
430A Abingdon Road
OXFORD OX1 4XG

Look at variants of the surname, you may have seen some of these on the census returns

https://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/WAR/Coleshill

Remember NOT all records have been digitalised yet!

[janbooth]

The actual parish register marriage entry is available to view on FindmyPast which is a pay per view site. You may find that you can access this site via your local Library as some do offer this facility I believe. I don't think it will help you too much in your quest for John's ancestry however as neither he nor Hannah seemed very literate - they both made their mark - as did the witnesses, but it is always useful to have the actual register record and the witness names may mean something to you.

I'm not too sure that John actually knew when he was born. As I said in your previous request about him, his burial record and his death certificate entry both show his age at death as 88, which gives him an approximate birth year of 1790, but that is totally dependent upon whoever provided the information. His census records variously show his dob as between 1801 & 1806 the only constant being that his place of birth is shown as Coleshill.

You may have to start thinking out of the box somewhat now. For instance, as John turns up in Wigginton, did any of his family move there and are there any other BARTRAMs in the Wigginton area who may be connected. For example, there is a Charles BARTRAM who is buried in Wigginton in 1838, aged 48, giving a birth date of c1790 - could he be connected in some way.

You will probably have to trawl through the parish register of Coleshill to see if you can gain any clues from them. Did Thomas & Mary have any more children there, did they die there, where were they married, etc. etc. Unfotunately, there are no short cuts and as they were Ag Labs it is unlikely that they left Wills which are often an extremely valuable source of information.

Doing a blanket search on Ancestry for any BARTRAMs born between 1785-1805 in Warwickshire with parents Thomas & Mary brings up at least one other child a Thomas baptised at Coleshill on 27 February 1791 and there may well be others which don't show up on the transcriptions or have been wrongly transcribed - the parish registers are quite difficult to read in places.

Looking for a likely marriage between Thomas & Mary brings up one at Bickenhill, Warwickshire - fairly close to Coleshill - on 16 September 1783 of a Thomas BARRTREM & Mary COX, both of the parish. They both made their mark and the witnesses were John COX & Thomas PORTERR who both signed. However, at first glance looking through the parish register of Bickenhill - and you should check this for yourself - there do not seem to be any children baptised to this couple there, so it is likely that Thomas was not native to Bickenhill. So, if these two are the parents of John BARTRAM, you are now looking for any children baptised from 1783 onwards in the Bickenhill/Coleshill area to a Thomas & Mary. A cursory look brings up a baptism at Yardley, Worcestershire - again pretty close to Bickenhill - of a Robert BARTRAM on 12 September 1784, parents Thomas & Mary. Again you would have to check that this Thomas & Mary BARTRAM did not remain/die in Yardley which would mean that they could not be the parents of your John.

As you can see it can be quite a long drawn out process of elimination. Agricultural Labourers could move around quite a lot as they went where the work was and did not necessarily stay in the same parish.

Hope this helps a bit anyway and gives you some more ideas and do ask more questions if you need to, after all we all started as novices at some time.

Janet

[JulPre]

Again I find myself getting nowhere, I go away..come back ...try again, but I'm still stuck. The information I think I have is John Bartram who married Hannah Pallet on 14 Sep 1829 in Stafford England. However I cannot find a definite birth date for either of them ...I think John is 1801 and Hannah I'm not really sure...1806-1809 possibly. They had a total of 9 children although a couple of them died young. I would really like to trace Johns parents as it his line that are direct ancestors to myself.
Any suggestions/hints would be welcome.
TIA
Julie (nee Bartram)

[emeltee]

John Bartram married Hannah Pallet 14 Sept 1829 at St Editha, Tamworth. Witnesses William Riley and Anne Kelton. All four made their mark.

I can find only one John Bartram and one Hannah Pallet who fit the criteria

John Bartram baptised 1803 Stafford St Mary Parents William and Sarah

Hannah Pallet baptised 1810 Tamworth St Editha, illegitimate daughter of Mary Pallet.

Emeltee

[janbooth]

1851 census of Wigginton, Staffordshire (HO107/2013, folio 292, page 10) shows John BARTRAM (Ancestry have his surname transcribed as BARHAM) living with wife Hannah and children Ann, William, James & Elizabeth. This census shows him as having been born c1806 at Coleshill and wife Hannah as c1808 at Wigginton.

1861 census of Wigginton (RG9/1969, folio 10, page 13) shows John BARTRAM (this time mistranscribed as BURHAM) as a 59 year old widowed Agricultural Labourer born Coleshill, Warwickshire living with children Ann & Elizabeth. 1871 census of Wigginton also confirms his place of birth as Coleshill c1801.

Hannah BARTRAM buried at Wigginton on 4 August 1860, aged 50 (parish register image available on pay per view site FindmyPast), so this would tie in with the baptism of Hannah PALLET that emeltee found for you (parish register image of this also available on FindmyPast).

Looking for John's baptism at Coleshill, I have found a transcription for a Thomas & Mary BARTRAM at Coleshill who had a son Thomas baptised on 27 February 1791. The parish register images for Coleshill are available to view on Ancestry.

Janet