Simmons of Whitechapel

[kevininlondon]

Dundee10 scary but brilliant.

[Dundee10]

I have always checked Trove for possible information but I would not have found either Abraham or Henry Joseph. How did you connect with this fabulous information?
regards
Steve

Joseph said that his father was Abraham a Tobacconist so I looked up the death indexes, found Henry Joseph, checked the Ryerson Index to see if there had been a newspaper death notice, found that there was and looked at it to see if he was the right person. The wife and named children were correct, but when I saw the son named Gordon I wondered who he was because you had not mentioned him. I checked for his death and parents' names and went back to the first marriage from there. His parents had different surnames in his death notice so there is always going to be a news story in that.

If you get an NLA library card you can access the SMH at home. It picks up from where Trove stops and goes to 1995.

If you don't have your John's death cert then you really need to get it find if Margaret's maiden surname is recorded. He was born before civil reg. started in Victoria, and if he was born outside marriage then knowing her name might be the only way you will find him.

[simmogj]

Us sticky beaks are so lucky to have Trove to solve world's mysteries.

Steve, if you were to get Amelia's (Millie) NSW birth certificate I am sure that it would tell you that Joseph/Henry was born in Sydney.



Children born to Abraham and Clara in Sydney:

1863 RACHEL
1866 DANIEL
1868 HENRY J
1870 MATILDA
1873 AARON
1877 FINNEY

Abraham did not marry Clara HARRIS until 1871, so there might be a story there. Trove has articles about Abraham the Tobacconist, including one in 1878 about Joseph and Aaron's school fees. So it seems HJ was always known as Joseph.

There are plenty of family trees on Ancestry for Abraham but none of them know anything about Joseph. I don't know how accurate they are but with an initial look they seem OK. You have a lot of people who can potentially link to your John. Abraham arrived with his parents and siblings (none named John) in 1854 and they all went forth and multiplied. Abraham was born around 1846, so if your John was born c1851 then they were of the same generation and you would be looking for someone who had arrived earlier.



6214/1899
SIMMONS, JOHN
Parents: JOHN & MARGARET
Registered at WEST MAITLAND

Do you have this death cert? Is there a maiden surname recorded for Margaret?

I may be able to shed some light if this is the same Abraham. Is there is a connection between Daniel Mendoza's daughter Matilda who married Samuel Michael Simmons who was the father of an Abraham Simmons b 1842 D 1898 Sydney? A tobacconist link is Abraham's brother Michael was Mick Simmons of the sports store Mick Simmons - it was a tobacconist sporting goods store - Michael also had a cigar cigarette factory in Sydney. During the 60's the business was privatized and sold to tobacco businessman Arthur Nelson, he separated the Tobacco business and Sporting goods.https://www.micksimmons.com.au/pages/frontpage some family stories were Abraham helped finance the store but Mick Simmons as a name for a store sounded better. Finney was Phineas Simmons. Abraham was the son of Samuel Michael Simmons and Matilda Louisa 'daniel' Sarah Isabella Simmons
Husband of Clara Simmons
Father of Phineas finney abraham Simmons and Daniel Garcia Mendoza Simmons
Brother of Sarah Asher; Esther Simmons; Rosetta Benjamin; Michael Mendoza Henry Simmons; Jessie Isaacs and 1 other
Half brother of Thomas Simmons